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Post by bmfjules on Apr 14, 2020 11:33:22 GMT -5
I can't pick -- all 3 were equally stupid And maybe equally huge. Except for WWE in 2001 (turning Austin heel, then a comic goofball, bungling the Invasion in a million different ways) I can't think of a company that made three bigger mistakes so close together. It's like someone decided to shoot, stab, and drown themselves all at the same time.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 13, 2020 15:35:30 GMT -5
1. Running Hogan vs Goldberg with minimal build on Nitro just to break WWF's winning streak was insanely stupid. It should have been at Halloween Havoc or Starrcade. 2. The problem with Sting was it turned out to be a new coat of paint on the same guy. He had learned how to be Sting in 1988 & had been that guy for 9 years. Then he changed his look. So long as he was just dropping goes with the reverse DDT & pointing a bat it worked. The second he hit a drop kick & did the Sting yell it was all over. 3. I've been thinking about this recently. It's pretty much accepted fact that WCW bungled Bret. Bischoff has admitted he didn't use Bret correctly. Bret has obviously said it. But what made Bret so hot in 1997? It was The Harts vs Austin, USA vs Canada, & the work turned shoot stuff with Shawn Michaels. By the summer of 97 he was the hottest heel in WWF. Obviously we know what happens that leads him to go to WCW. And at that point? All of the things that made Bret a great antagonist are gone. Not only that but because of what happened in Montreal he's coming in as a babyface. So you've got Sting as your top face then you've got in some order The Giant, DDP & Lex Luger. So creatively you either cool down a program you've been building over a long period to slot Bret into a position. Otherwise he's like the 5th babyface in the pecking order. If you turn him heel to soon the reason he's got people buzzing is gone too. So what do you do? Oh and you can't make a connection between Bret, Davey & Neidhart. So that's gone too. I'm a big Bret Hart fan but I don't think it was as easy as "Bret comes in & is the top star" Here's my thoughts as far as booking Bret in 1998. I think in the short term, yes you absolutely use Bret as the top babyface given how he just came off of WWE TV. What McMahon did at Survivor Series was basically another double turn that turned Vince into the biggest heel in the business and Bret into the biggest babyface and WWF television even furthered the angle while he was gone. First few months I book Bret in an immediate program with Hogan which serves the dual purpose of getting Hogan out of the title scene for a while and cashing in on the biggest match you have with Bret in WCW. Eventually Bret cools down and is just another solid main event option, but in the first few months after Montreal you make the Lugers and DDPs understand that this is a special circumstance and let Bret be the dangerous outsider kind of like Sting was in 1997, not on anyone's side in the war but out for his own agenda and settling old scores. After Hogan, Bret also has a ready made program with Ric Flair which can be shades of grey instead of straight babyface vs. heel. At the same time, Sting who beat Hogan cleanly at Starrcade runs through the remaining main event NWO members with title defenses against Nash, Macho, Hall etc until at least Fall Brawl. Meanwhile Goldberg is still doing what Goldberg was already doing, getting over by squashing half the roster. At Fall Brawl you have the WCW version of the Avengers in Sting, Bret, Goldberg, and DDP defeat the NWO consisting of Hogan, Macho, Outsiders etc. That war games ends with Hogan tapping out to Bret in the sharpshooter but before that Goldberg comes out last and does a one man house clearing party on the NWO bumping them all around. At Halloween Havoc, Hogan regains the title from Sting after the Giant or someone else turns and joins the NWO. Bret wins the WW3 battle royal getting a future title shot down the line. Meanwhile Goldberg beats Hogan for the title at Starrcade 98, with Sting going for revenge in the semi-main. My big moments at Starrcade 98 would be: Goldberg winning the title, Bret and Ric Flair setting aside personal differences to win the tag titles from the Outsiders at Starrcade then after the match Bret and Flair get to beat the hell out of Bischoff, Sting gets his revenge on the Giant countering a chokeslam into the Scorpion Death Drop which he did and which was very cool in real life, DDP dropping the United States title against Scott Steiner who will be a challenger for Goldberg in 99. Then you begin 99 with Goldberg having challengers all over the map with a viable Hogan rematch, Sting owed a rematch, Hart owed a title shot, and Steiner and other guys in the wings.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 13, 2020 13:42:37 GMT -5
I think that a fair comparison to Ronda's success is Anderson Silva in the way that both have accentuated advantages over the opposition, their opponents knew about it but they still fell for it anyways. Ronda was known as someone who had a strong clinch and judo throws so, of course, most of her opponents rushed at her, thinking that putting pressure on her early would be good enough to beat Ronda... leaving themselves open for Ronda to clinch on them and throw them around. Silva was good at being evasive by ducking, dodging and waving out of pinches before punishing opponents with counter strikes so, of course, his opponents swung at Anderson, trying to knock him out... and letting themselves open to get punished by counter strikes. Not a great comparison given how Anderson is a 3rd degree BJJ blackbelt and had decent submissions too. Dude managed to beat some very solid grapplers. I think a better comparison for Ronda is Lyoto Machida. His evasive karate moves were so different from anyone else was doing that it carried him a long ways in a short time until people figured it out and he just became a middle of the pack fighter. Kind of like in the NFL every now and then a team will come up with a play that hasn't been used in forever and they will look insanely good for a spell until everyone else figures it out and the playing field levels out again based on talent.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 13, 2020 13:38:25 GMT -5
So many options to choose from. But if you could just undo one of them and re-book it the way it should have gone, which one would you fix?
In my head: Screwing up Bret was bad. Hottest free agent WCW ever had, but he was at the end of his career likely even without the concussion so they lost out on about a good five year window where they could have made serious money with him.
Sting could have been booked as WCW's version of the Undertaker after Starrcade and as he worked steadily until the middle of this last decade, he could have been a dependable top draw for a long, long time.
Goldberg was probably going to eventually leave the wrestling business so I'm thinking best case booking scenario, you make as much money as you can with him until the mid 2000s when I think he likely would have left to do TV shows and movies anyway, or since WCW was never opposed to light work contracts for top guys, he could still had a deal where he showed up a few times a year for big matches and could still be doing that up until the present for them as he is for WWE now.
I came into this thinking Bret was the clear winner for worst blunder, but now I'm going to say Sting. He had a brand new character that was more over than anything he'd ever done and they turned him into a dancing lobster for shits and giggles.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 13, 2020 12:14:50 GMT -5
The only one I would have doubt for is end-career Yokozuna, as he was huge. Yeah, and even then, if Yoko is assisting I'm betting he can get him up and then at that point all he has to do is fall and drop Yoko to the side and boom, F-5.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 13, 2020 12:05:05 GMT -5
Hypothetically, if they were alive and in their prime at the same time Giant Gonzalez? Great Kahli? Big Daddy V? Yokozuna? Andre? Giant Gonzalez - Brock could absolutely lift him by brute force and perform the move but it would look like dogshit. Great Khali - See above. Big Daddy V - If Big Daddy V were willing to help out and didn't sandbag him, I could see this being possible --but again the move would look like shit probably even best case scenaro, but if Big Vis doesn't wanna go up, he ain't going up and Brock can't lift him. Yokozuna - 1992/93 Yoko could easily go up for the move and was a good enough worker to take it well. This would have been an absolute Wrestlemania moment if you could time machine it all together to make it happen. Later Yoko - see comments on Viscera. Andre - The Andre from 1972 all the way until probably 83/84 could easily take this move - with him assisting of course. Another case of, if Andre wanted to it could absolutely happen and look awesome, but if Andre didn't want to, no way on earth it happens. Post 1985 Andre could still potentially pull it off but it would look like shit and be very dangerous for him physically to take it.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 13, 2020 11:36:23 GMT -5
I would say SuperBrawl IX. I thought the splitting into the two factions gave it some new life. The Fingerpoke was irritating, but the two months of TV after it was actually very good in my opinion. The nWo had some real heat for the first time in like a year or more and they positioned all of the best babyfaces up against the NWO: Goldberg, Flair, DDP, the Horseman, Rey Mysterio, Konnan etc. And then at SuperBrawl, the NWO won every match they were in. After that, my watching of WCW went way down for the rest of the history of the company. I was just tired of always being disappointed at the end of big angles. I only remember seeing it a few times after that point. People always bag on Russo, and rightfully so, that he produced great beginnings with horrible follow ups, but really, WCW was doing that long before him. Every single major successful WCW storyline, whether it was the rise of the NWO, the rise of and title reign of Goldberg, Crow Sting, the arrival of Bret Hart, the NWO vs NWO deal, and the NWO reunion angle---every single one of those angles were ruined with a crappy ending or a non-ending and all of that was well before Vince Russo arrived in mid 1999.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 13, 2020 11:28:53 GMT -5
It was gradual.
In 1996 everything they did, even when it didn't make sense sometimes, was new and exciting.
Through most of 1997 things were still exciting as you had the Crow Sting deal gaining steam, and even as membership swelled up, for the most part everything was still somewhat logical and the war was still interesting.
In 1998, Goldberg got hot and yes the NWO Wolfpac vs NWO Hollywood deal was stupid BUT those Wolfpack T-shirts were big sellers and that group was over. What they did to Sting and Bret Hart in 1998 is without a doubt the most criminally retarded piece of booking ever--both of those guys started the year as guys who could draw you a million dollars on top and ended the year as midcarders.... but momentum was still there. The consequences of the bad decisions had not arrived yet.
In 1999 those consequences came and they came hard. That said, as a fan I was kind of excited and interested after the Fingerpoke of Doom. The NWO supergroup that formed after made for some compelling television. What KILLED that interest was Goldberg getting hurt and then all the big stars slowly fading out of TV and then you have a big vacuum. So I guess there is the answer. About two or three months into 1999 when the big NWO reunion storyline just fizzled out.... WCW never recovered from that and the show never looked the same again in terms of excitement or fan interest.
By the time Jeff Jarrett and the Harris Twins joined in 2000 (which again was a result of a less interesting but still halfway interesting revamping with Bret Hart fizzling out), they were just beating up on a corpse by then.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 13, 2020 11:13:55 GMT -5
The way they filmed the Pillman incident was gritty and realistic, very reminiscent of what ECW had been doing, and was played straight up by the announcers and if you did not know it was a work you could easily believe what was being presented to you as being a real incident. From the beginning, way before the BANG 3:16 flag appeared, the Austin/McMahon kidnapping was filmed and treated like a Wile E. Coyote/Roadrunner cartoon. It was entertaining, but unlike the Pillman incident where you only had to suspend disbelief a little bit--you can believe Austin is crazy enough to invade Pillman's home and Pillman is crazy enough to pull and use a gun, and WWE was already filming an interview segment there explaining the cameras catching it all, vs. Austin committing a literal armed felony and inviting camera men along for every step of the journey and no cops ever coming into the equation.
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 3, 2020 13:00:42 GMT -5
I forgot or never knew this happened... did they ever have a match? They were scheduled to do the Champion vs. Champion match at Survivor Series ‘18, but that changed quickly after Jinder dropped the belt to AJ Styles. Oh okay I do remember that match.
I just listened to that Heyman promo and I was pysched to see Brock beatdown on Jinder lol...
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 3, 2020 12:54:17 GMT -5
I remember when Heyman just responded to his challenge to Brock by straight up burying him to the point where I even felt sorry for the guy. I forgot or never knew this happened... did they ever have a match?
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Post by bmfjules on Apr 3, 2020 12:50:38 GMT -5
I was thinking about it, and 2017 was pretty much the year that killed all my interest in WWE. The end of 2016 was pretty exciting, especially on the Smackdown end, but in 2017 we got the Randy Orton sperm snake Bray Wyatt bug ring Mania match, Jinder’s World Title win and terrible reign filled with racism, predictable booking, and endless Randy Orton matches, Brock beating Joe and Braun in like five minutes a piece and effectively ending them both as viable threats to his title (all in service of building up a Roman Reigns Wrestlemania victory that of course never happened), and the embarrassing Roman and Cena feud that both men came out of looking worse off. Yeah, same boat. I had been waning in and out but Joe and Braun were both guys I had hopes could be big breakout stars, same with Kevin Owens, and at least with 2/3rds of that equation they just pissed it all away. Raw records every week, but it's maybe once a month I'll even bother to FF>> through a show if that. And whenever I do turn in and see how they have certain guys booked and positioned, it reaffirms that I made the right decision.
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Post by bmfjules on Mar 21, 2020 14:41:15 GMT -5
Any move can be a finisher IMO.
Just have someone beat a bunch of people with it.
I like how Paul Heyman pitched the idea for Mark Henry to use a side headlock as a finisher. Wish it would have happened. Would have been a cool visual seeing him kayfabe snap a bunch of dude's necks or put them to sleep with the most basic standard rest hold. And it's realistic AF, because in real life, if Mark Henry wraps his arms around your skull and squeezes with bad intent, that's the end of your day.
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Post by bmfjules on Mar 4, 2020 10:26:31 GMT -5
Raven doesn't look like the Raven I want Raven to be and Raven hasn't looked like the Raven I want Raven to be since about 2000. Raven on the left, Matt Hardy on the right.
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Post by bmfjules on Feb 29, 2020 14:50:20 GMT -5
Every feud will cost Mox a different body part. By the end of 2023 he'll just be a blind, deaf, mute, and limbless torso being thrown off balconies into flaming tables covered in thumbtacks wired with C4.
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Post by bmfjules on Feb 18, 2020 18:01:34 GMT -5
No, it is not. There is a debate about fairness in real sport regarding transpeople. Wrestling is wrestling it can do what it wants as long as people work safely. Boxing has Weight division and a skillful boxer can beat an brawler with power so the example put forward was a bit exaggerated. However just saying "you have to accept this now because I belive it to be true" is ridiculous. I can still be friends with transpeople, go to parties with transpeople, sleep with transpeople have 4tb of transporn on my external hard drive an still ponder whether it's fair for male to female trans people with a significant physical advantage to compete in female only categories. You are expecting the world to change with a click of a finger. Right. Hi, married to a trans woman here. Have a lot of friends online who are high profile trans voices, including notable trans woman athlete Rachel McKinnon. Basically, I know a lot about this subject. Trans women in sports have no advantage. The olympic standard for accepting trans women in sport is to be 2 years post reassignment surgery, which the actual doctors and hormone experts they consulted determined is long enough for testosterone advantages to be cleared away by changes in the human body. Bone structures change, muscle mass is lost, your stamina goes through the floor because unlike cis women you have zero testosterone, hell my wife's hands and feet actually shrunk a size. Trans women in sports is distinctly nothing like the crap that transphobes think it is. Honestly just wanted to say thanks for this post. It pointed out information I legit had no clue about. I will admit that through ignorance I have held opinions similar to the one you are refuting above in the past. But I appreciate being educated on the subject.
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Post by bmfjules on Feb 18, 2020 6:50:36 GMT -5
John Cena. He could make one hell of a last chapter for his career if he helped cement AEW and make some new stars, and bring over a lot of casual fans in the process. It'd be the modern equivalent of Hogan to WCW.
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Post by bmfjules on Feb 18, 2020 6:44:31 GMT -5
I feel like this specific form of mental illness is a result of PTSD from when Kaientai tried to (and maybe succeeded) in "choppy choppy'ing his pee pee..." so now he tries to compensate his lack of manhood by taking on the most garbage toxic masculinity driven views possible and using that in place of a personality, er, pee pee in this case.
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Post by bmfjules on Feb 14, 2020 15:59:51 GMT -5
Would New Japan allow this? This would be as big a poke in their eye as ROH running in MSG was to WWE I would think.
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Post by bmfjules on Jan 28, 2020 11:09:11 GMT -5
I'm fine with Orton vs. Edge. Orton is a solid, safe wrestler who does a plain boring style that is not likely to cause Edge to f*** himself up any worse than he already is f***ed up.
Edge vs. Rollins? TF did Adam Copeland do to you guys? (jk)
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