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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 17, 2007 19:55:31 GMT -5
I still stand by my stance that Vince had the right intentions when he decided to bring it back. It was his pet project, but after a while, he grew weary of it, like he does with a lot of them.
RVD getting busted was bad. Now, if this were the ECW of old, Paul would have played it off as having a rebelous champ who doesn't give a shit about the law. I would have played it off that way as well. However, WWE has stockholders and advertisers to uphere to. If they reward a guy who got busted for drugs and had all this negitive spotlight (although I think acknowledging it made it worse than leaving it be), stockholders and advertisers would shit their pants.
Is it RVD's fault? Nah, I think it was bad timing. 18 grams is a lot (and damn I wish I had it), and I'm sure the cop wanted to make a name for himself. I'm sure a lot of wrestlers do this kind of thing all the time, as do other athletes and movie stars. A lot of the time they can get out of it, but there are always the anolomies. RVD's case is one of them.
And like I said before, if WWE didn't have such a clean-cut corporate agenda to adhere to, RVD wouldn't have probably been depushed (until Steph got her hand on it). Especially because it was right into the style that ECW was all about. Having RVD busted for pot as the champ, in my eyes, would have been a good thing for his character. But it's all corporate adgendas and money. But that's not Vince's fault either.
What I think really did it was the fact that D2D bombed. ECW was the first brand to test out the new ideology of only announcing main-event matches. That, and the requirements of having gimmicky Sci-Fi shit and stuff that turned people off (Kelly stripping) dipped the ratings and the PPV buyrates were horrible.
Who's responsible for those, I can't say. I'd like to say Steph, but I bet some of it was Heyman too. And Vince. And Dunn. Was there an adgenda to sabotage ECW? Who knows? All I know is that after D2D Vince grew tired of this project because it hasn't worked as well as the ONS PPVs did, so he lost interest, and let others feed him into getting Heyman out (which I'm sure didn't bother him one bit) and that's how we're at where we're at with this product.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 17, 2007 0:47:57 GMT -5
Um, to whomever posted that thing about the Hammerstein fans shitting all over the 6/14 match, you're wrong. THEY are responsible for why CM Punk is over. If he debuted ANYWHERE else than that area (and maybe Chicago or other "smart" towns) he would not be over at all because he would have been a nobody. There were no boring chants. The only match that got shit on was the Show/Tista match. With good reason too. Are we supposed to be dumb enough to think that a SD guy would win the ECW title?
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 15, 2007 23:06:13 GMT -5
I think a lot of it has to do with it not being an alternative to WWE anymore. Why distinguish it as a seperate federation if it's just a continutation of RAW and SD?
I, too, was seduced by the ONS PPVs into thinking we'd get that kind of action within a brand that represents that kind of action. ECW used to stand for wrestling, and hell, Joey cut that beautful promo on it. People were expecting something different. When the show wasn't pulling in "good enough ratings" (which is funny because it did better then than it does now), Vince decided (or probably Steph, as she hates Paul) that ECW isn't as marketable as the RAW style, so switch it to that to bring in the 3.5s that RAW gets! Of course, no one thought that a fan base needed to be established and that not as many people get Sci-Fi as they do USA, but hell, if we make it RAW 2, we should be able to pull in all THOSE viewers to another WWE show, right?
I think it started off as a noble concept, but like with many of Vince's current pet projects, he loses interest in them quickly, and looks for the easiest way out.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 15, 2007 23:08:57 GMT -5
Someone call up Cindy Lauper. The 80s are back.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 17, 2007 20:16:49 GMT -5
They probably don't know the difference either. They are the idiots who started the rumors of "there's only room for one Shane in Dubya Dubya E" and decided to switch his names around.
If they were the least bit credible, they would have checked their sources (for God's sake, his full name is on his website) and realized this. Which makes me so pissed that these assholes like Ryan Clark make a living off being idiots and spewing libel.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 17, 2007 20:00:56 GMT -5
...ow ow ow ow ow I'd make a vertabreaker joke here but i actually like Helms. Also, i'm probably never going to find out whether his real first name is Gregory or Shane. the OWW bio says that it's Gregory Shane Helms but everyone seems to use Shane more. No, it is Gregory Helms. It annoys me when people say "the only reason he uses Gregory is because they don't want 2 Shanes, and his first name is Shane and his middle is Gregory". That's just mindless anti-WWE drivel. It's Gregory Shane Helms. I've interviewed the guy for a journalism project and my friend drew him a picture that was his site's splash a few years back (in 2002 when he was still the Hurricane). He just uses Shane I assume because it's easier to use with names. Sugar Shane works better than Sugar Greg Helms. It's like me, I would use James as my first name, or my last name because it's easier to work with, and my real first and last aren't very good for nicknames and such.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 17, 2007 18:14:11 GMT -5
I'm gonna wait for wwe.com to give the word, but they may not do it for another little while. See, they shouldn't bury him on television. What they should've done is given him the belt, and at One Night Stand, have him do the job for the worthy challenger, and then that's it for Van Dam. This is WWE. They don't do that anymore. They really shouldn't either if he might pop up somewhere else too.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 19, 2007 0:04:45 GMT -5
I kinda look forward to post-WM firings....I think it's because it's the only thing thats unpredictable about wrestling anymore. It's not that I'm happy these guys are losing jobs, I just like being shocked. It was the same way when they had draft picks. Those were the only two things that excited me since WCW died...is that sad or what?
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 19, 2007 0:32:00 GMT -5
Translation: We're gonna wait until we figure out how to make our botchfest matches less fake.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 18, 2007 23:55:31 GMT -5
You're preaching to the choir kid. The generic stuff never works, except possibly in real sports, but still, guys who stick out always become fan-favorites (Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, CroCop, Rodman, Shaq, Jordan). That's why I can't watch indies. Ok, they can wrestle. But why the f*** should I care?
And now WWE is going this approach too. A lot of these guys have nothing that seperates them from the others. So why should I care about them?
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 16, 2007 16:36:22 GMT -5
If it was an internet only show, how the hell would it have made any money? Advertising. The more bandwidth the site brings in the more money they recieve. And if they had ads before and after the stream, which would be broken into each segment, they woulda made big bucks too.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 18, 2007 16:37:52 GMT -5
I seriously don't get the reasoning behind firing Ariel. She could work, and is IMO the hottest diva there is. They could have moved her over to RAW to fued with Mickie once Melina gets old.
And I mean she was gorgeous! She'll always have a place to go though...especially my house.
I'll see you soon, Shelly.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 21, 2007 10:11:55 GMT -5
God I dunno. Cena has dominated so much he literally took the whole RAW roster down with him. No one seems credible anymore compared to him. Who's gonna take his title? Flair? HBK? Orton? Hell, even the Undertaker looks bad against Cena because Cena has beaten literally everyone AND guys 8 feet taller than he is. With one f***ing move.
It's like theres a mid-card, a main event, and then Cena status. Seriously, who can take the title away from this dude?
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 21, 2007 10:14:04 GMT -5
I agree. That's how I feel about it in retrospect. HHH wedding killed it. IMO.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 21, 2007 9:33:23 GMT -5
Yeah, when they first moved him to RAW I was excited because I thought he would go back to doing his raps that were insulting, like the ones with Micheal Jackson and stuff. I thought since he was on cable, he could really be like a rapper and curse more, and get dirtier with his gimmick.
Boy was I wrong. If he was neutered on SD! because of the S&P of network television, I don't even know what this is called that happened to him where he can't even use a shred of originality.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 22, 2007 12:25:18 GMT -5
I'd have to go with Flair, Benoit, Malenko, Regal and Arn.
World Champ, Enforcer, Tag Team and manager, in that order.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 24, 2007 12:20:52 GMT -5
I hate these friggin "styles" everyone talks about. Pro Wrestling is not a martial art. It doesn't have styles like ju-jitsu, or tai kwon do. It's pro wrestling. End of story. There's either emphasis on some parts (like crusierweights or ring technicians) or not. But to classify someone as working a "style" in an "art" that doesn't have any variations is stupid. It's not like ring technicians are so drastically different in what they do than luchadores that they need to have their own fighting style to say what they do. All the moves in wrestling can cross over, and are all taught the same way. It's completely different than learning a disiplined martial art.
Pro Wrestling is Pro Wrestling. There are no styles to it. Get over it.
What the WWE has is a de-emphasis on injury prone moves. Not their own seperate wrestling style.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 24, 2007 19:58:32 GMT -5
I say he should be Vickie Guerrero's new BF. Insta-heat.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 26, 2007 7:47:34 GMT -5
Sounds like good news, as I hate when guys are f***ed over because they can't use their name, but I don't know if I believe the report...especially after seeing some WWE patents for RVD. But I hope for RVD's sake he has his name. He may be a pothead, but he isn't too dumb.
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Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on May 25, 2007 22:09:12 GMT -5
I think the old ECW wins for one deciding factor. You can take away all the talent, all the matches, all the storylines both good and bad from each variation of ECW and there is one variable that made the old ECW top the new one.
It listened to the fans.
If there is one reason why the new ECW fails, it's because WWE will NOT listen to the fans. Just because a new show isn't pulling up ratings like the other two shows you run does not mean that the fanbase isn't there, and you need to readjust it to mimic the other two brands. The crowd goes wild for Sandman when he comes through the crowd. Absolutely f***ing nuts. He gets the biggest pop of the night that way. So what does WWE do? Keep the guy off the air and forbid him from entering from the crowd. The fans go batshit crazy when extreme bumps and hardcore weapons and moves are used. But again, a little whisper in the ear to Vince, and f*** the fans, we need to invest more time into running "safer" ECW shows. To the point that extreme rules doesn't even exist anymore. RVD STILL gets the loudest pop of the entire ECW brand. The fans LOVE to see him. But he made one little mistake, so they have to put all their marbles into trying to recreate Vince/Austin to accel Lashley to a viable main event face level.
Paul and Todd Gordon knew this about the fans. They knew how to listen to the fans, manipulate them, and respected the fans. There's no debating it -- the new ECW lacks this. They literally ripped the heart out of ECW when they shit on the fans. If a guy in ECW couldn't get over (like Lashley), they would work on the guy and make him get over with the fans. The new ECW just isolates the fans who won't except the guys they want to put over and changes the product around so that the fanbase works in their favor. The ECW of old was never like that.
The old ECW wasn't arranged so that it the audience would work to the booker's favor. The old ECW was arranged so that the booking worked to the audience.
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