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Post by breakdownthewalls on Mar 3, 2012 16:22:06 GMT -5
Nope, but if you're a good wrestler you could turn 5 moves into a variety of different matches. Here's EVERY SINGLE MIZ MATCH: Punch the guy for a while Stomp him a bit Now sell for a while Reverse something into that DDT Do that lame turnbuckle clothesline Stomp some more Sell If you're gonna win: hit the finisher out of nowhere If you're gonna lose: sell some more, slide out of a guy's finisher one time, then lose That's it. SO by-the-numbers it's insane. People rag on Cena for "5 MOVES OF DOOM LOL!!" but he has a different match depending on his opponent and can work with the other guy to make it damn exciting. CM Punk: Fake Tai thing Macho Elbow drop Corner knee thing to bull dog GTS *If opponent gets out, Kick em!* Submissions Sell See how easy that is!? I get what you're trying to do, but it's not even close. Watch Punk's match against D-Bry. Focused on submissions, wearing the other guy down and hitting power moves to keep him down. Chain wrestling out the wazoo. Then watch Punk against Cena. Totally different style of match. Big spot after big spot. Punk sneaking in chain wrestling since he couldn't match Cena for pure power. Tons of counters on the big moves. Then watch Punk against Ziggler. Once again, totally different. High speed, hit and run. Knock the other guy down for a bit and try to keep him down. Yes, Punk's signatures came into play. That's part of being a good wrestler. But he used them at different points in the matches, and the matches built around them were suited to his different opponents.
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elryc
Samurai Cop
Team ANYONE But Johnny
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Post by elryc on Mar 3, 2012 16:22:45 GMT -5
They better figure it out fast. If the Miz takes a nose dive at this point, the WWE looks worse than the Miz does. They basically cemented this guy in WWE history by having him beat Cena at Wrestlemania last year in the MAIN EVENT. If they fumble the ball with him now, it will be worse than Kennedy. As a Miz fan, I'm hoping they have some sort of plan for him. Personally I'd like to see him turn face soon. It would freshen him up quite a bit. That's the thing, they hedged so bad on Miz's title run. I mean, really he was little more than a cog for the Rock/Cena storyline even in that match. They gave him that really good video package to try and hide that fact, but not much else.
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Mar 3, 2012 16:27:05 GMT -5
Wins and losses mean nothing. A guy could lose every match for a year and be the #1 contender a week later. The only way to really "bury" anyone now would be to limit the amount of TV time they get
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 16:28:16 GMT -5
Funny, I don't see too many people bringing up Triple H and Rey Mysterio spending an hour in the Rumble being a hell of a lot less active than Miz was.
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Post by cool guy on Mar 3, 2012 16:38:26 GMT -5
Funny, I don't see too many people bringing up Triple H and Rey Mysterio spending an hour in the Rumble being a hell of a lot less active than Miz was. Dude, what? People mock Rey for his hour of hugging the bottom rope all the time.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Mar 3, 2012 16:40:30 GMT -5
Everyone hates Miz! Everyone hates Miz! My mother... (Hates) My father... (Hates) My sister... (Hates) My brother... (Hates) My dog... (Hates) Everyone hates Miz Miz Miz! Miz Miz Miz Miz Miz Miz Miz Miz! Miz Miz Miz Miz Miz Miz! Everyone hates Miz!
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BigWill on Mar 3, 2012 16:41:20 GMT -5
Funny, I don't see too many people bringing up Triple H and Rey Mysterio spending an hour in the Rumble being a hell of a lot less active than Miz was. Dude, what? People mock Rey for his hour of hugging the bottom rope all the time. Yeah. Even though I haven't been around here for very long, I've heard this complaint quite a lot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 16:50:16 GMT -5
I haven't really heard it much any more. Either way, stupid thing for me to have brought up in the first place - point is, guys supposedly more talented do a lot of the same stuff people levy against Miz.
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Post by Drink Up Me Cider on Mar 3, 2012 16:52:50 GMT -5
Well despite personal preference on what wrestler/character you like, even if you like the guy, you've got to admit he's pretty average in everything he has done. I don't mean that in a bad way but the impression I got, when he won the main title, was the brass thought he could (doors reference) break on through to the other side and be a main eventer constantly. That hasn't been the case.
I have no idea about nuclear heatzzz or any of that stuff. I just got the impression that the company gave him the ball and he didn't live up to expectations.
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HBL
Unicron
This is what yoga does to you.
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Post by HBL on Mar 3, 2012 16:58:00 GMT -5
And the reason why he hasn't turned face yet is the same reason they won't turn Vickie Guerrero. Most fans legitimately don't like them. Chicago crowd,Atlanta crowd,Abu Dhabi crowd,etc...oh,and all the crowd in Miz's media appereances would strongly disagree with you.There's no way Miz is hated that much. Sure,I see a lot of Miz hate here.''He can't wrestle!'' or ''He botches his lines every time!''.There are even people who wish him to get fired because of his botch with R-Truth. I really don't care though.Miz entertains me like nobody does,that's what's important to be.In the ring,he's not as awful as people make him up to be.He's decent in the ring and definitely great on the microphone.Sure,he botches his lines a bit.But who doesn't? This might sound weird,but Miz is a fast talker and it's natural that he botches some of his lines.CM Punk,although I love him,waits like a minute between each sentence while either making mock faces or listening to the chants,he can think during the promo.But Miz delivers his lines in a fast and aggressive manner as of late.And despite a few botches,I still think he's great on the mic.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Mar 3, 2012 17:08:50 GMT -5
Dude, what? People mock Rey for his hour of hugging the bottom rope all the time. Yeah. Even though I haven't been around here for very long, I've heard this complaint quite a lot. Regardless, I don't see how it's relevant to this discussion. Rey and Triple H both have a large catalogue of great matches...Miz has a couple...that he was carried to. It's a sure sign that your argument is invalid when you have to try to change the subject and say "well what about this guy?"
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Post by The Tee Why on Mar 3, 2012 17:18:22 GMT -5
I hate him too, have you seen the chick he goes home to? God...
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Psychoblue
Don Corleone
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Post by Psychoblue on Mar 3, 2012 17:19:20 GMT -5
Yeah. Even though I haven't been around here for very long, I've heard this complaint quite a lot. Regardless, I don't see how it's relevant to this discussion. Rey and Triple H both have a large catalogue of great matches...Miz has a couple...that he was carried to. It's a sure sign that your argument is invalid when you have to try to change the subject and say "well what about this guy?" EFF THAT NOISE! You could make a case for Miz vs Rey or Miz vs Bryan, but how Miz vs Cena with their TV matches, or Miz vs Primo, or Miz vs Morrison (who, BTW, cannot carry anyone to save his life), or Miz vs Matt, Miz vs Lawler, or Miz vs Kofi (another man who cannot carry someone else because, like Jomo, he's very spot-heavy), or the large array of amazing tag matches he had as the In-Crowd, or how Miz vs Riley was one of the most over matches of the night at Capitol Punishment (granted, that PPV sucked). Like Ghidorah said, it's incredible just how much some of us like to delude ourselves into thinking that Miz is an outright BAD worker.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 3, 2012 17:24:00 GMT -5
Just seems like more WWE yo yo booking to me. Give it a few months, he might be right back main eventing.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Mar 3, 2012 17:25:41 GMT -5
Regardless, I don't see how it's relevant to this discussion. Rey and Triple H both have a large catalogue of great matches...Miz has a couple...that he was carried to. It's a sure sign that your argument is invalid when you have to try to change the subject and say "well what about this guy?" EFF THAT NOISE! You could make a case for Miz vs Rey or Miz vs Bryan, but how Miz vs Cena with their TV matches, or Miz vs Primo, or Miz vs Morrison (who, BTW, cannot carry anyone to save his life), or Miz vs Matt, Miz vs Lawler, or Miz vs Kofi (another man who cannot carry someone else because, like Jomo, he's very spot-heavy), or the large array of amazing tag matches he had as the In-Crowd, or how Miz vs Riley was one of the most over matches of the night at Capitol Punishment (granted, that PPV sucked). Like Ghidorah said, it's incredible just how much some of us like to delude ourselves into thinking that Miz is an outright BAD worker. Meh, most of those Miz matches you mentioned were pretty bad. Big differences of opinions here.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Development through Destruction.
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 3, 2012 17:28:05 GMT -5
I don't hate Miz. No reason why I don't except I can't bring myself to hate anyone in the wrestling business. My problem is that they continuously try to push him as something he's not. He's not a badass. He's a douchy, cocky, cunning heel. Basically, he's not Bikertaker, he's Honky Tonk Man.
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Post by Drink Up Me Cider on Mar 3, 2012 17:28:12 GMT -5
I think the dislike/hate is more about how much he was pushed and won the big one. A lot of people felt he didn't deserve it, and he didn't improve once he was the main guy. Compare him winning the title to Bryan winning the title.
I will say though that he's a great tag team wrestler and has had fantastic, 'over' tag teams. It's a shame that the tag team division is so underused in the WWE. As a single competitor though, well it's up to opinions really...
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Mar 3, 2012 17:35:12 GMT -5
I have no idea about nuclear heatzzz or any of that stuff. I just got the impression that the company gave him the ball and he didn't live up to expectations. This. and TBH, since then he's been in a slow slide down the card and he's started not to care. He didn't stumble through promos until recently, and some matches looked phoned in. WWE has him at that point of "eat crap and like it" for a while, then if he doesn't complain and continue to work hard, they'll push him again. And while no, I don't like the Miz, just about EVERY wrestler goes through the "Eat crap and like it" phase in WWE.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 17:36:47 GMT -5
Unless you were listening in on the matches being put together, I don't know how you could immediately declare that every good match Miz has had he was undoubtedly carried to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 18:21:00 GMT -5
Unless you were listening in on the matches being put together, I don't know how you could immediately declare that every good match Miz has had he was undoubtedly carried to. That's not "carrying". One wrestler telling the other wrestler what to do occurs in pretty much every match. We just don't always notice it. The only real exception is when the match has been planned and practiced so much that the wrestlers have it memorized. Also, who calls the spots and who listens is based on which wrestler is the veteran and/or which wrestler is the heel. If a wrestler is both the veteran and the heel, then it's very unlikely that the babyface will call the match.
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