|
Post by Starshine on Mar 3, 2012 19:39:56 GMT -5
Who cares about the average fan? I should point out that there's a very good chance that he doesn't post here.
|
|
|
Post by rapidfire187 on Mar 3, 2012 19:40:34 GMT -5
Anybody who brings up workrate is deluding themselves into thinking it even matters to the average fan. The average fan isn't Dave Meltzer. The average fan doesn't hang out on wrestling boards. The average fan is an 11 year old kid who wants to see the bad guys get beaten by the good guys. Daniel Bryan, a man regarded as one of the best, if not the best ring workers of his generation gets a bigger reaction out of the WWE crowds by acting like an asshole than he ever did by putting on great matches. Miz is one of those guys who doesn't need to put on great matches to be good at his job. He has it in him to put on great matches, but he doesn't need to, as he gets the desired reactions from the paying audience. If it's not broke, why fix it? Even as one of Miz's biggest supporters on this board, yeah he's not been on top form lately, but after nearly five years of being Mr. No Days Off it was bound to happen sooner or later. See, Bryan gets it. He's acts like an asshole, and then he goes out and has a kick ass match. I don't care what the "casual fan" wants, and none of us are casual fans anyway so why do we always try to speak for them? I watch wrestling expecting good wrestling matches. Sure there's more, but I wouldn't watch it if the matches weren't fun to watch. If you're going to say that he doesn't "need" to have good matches, I will never agree with that. If you're a main event guy who takes pride in your work, who would you rather wrestle? Bryan or Miz? I think thats why things are the way they are lately. Couldn't agree more. It's not like you have to be lousy in the ring to be a heel. You can have great matches without doing stuff that makes the crowd pop too. Just look at Ziggler. The crowd doesn't pop for his moves, but they damn sure pop for the moves that he sells.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 19:47:29 GMT -5
See, for some of these arguments the casual fan thing does have merit. There are people saying things like that Miz clearly doesn't belong in the main event scene or that he's not being successful in his work, and the reactions he continues to get from the crowd speak to the contrary.
And for the record, I find Miz a whole lot more entertaining than I do Bryan.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 3, 2012 19:56:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I honestly don't care about any of that. I'm a wrestling fan. I have no interest in pretending to be a part of the business aspect of it. The casual fans can like who they want, but they really have no place in this discussion, so there's really no point in bringing them up at all. My initial point was not about what the casual fans like, but about his ring work. The company has always given more importance to character over ring work. Miz has thrived in that environment, yet people love to throw his supposed lack of workrate at him, when chances are when he gets to the back Vince or Ace pat him on the back and say "good job, keep it up". I get that he's not for everyone, but the people who paint him as a waste of a roster spot and consider any opposing viewpoint as invalid (thus negating the "discussing" part of the discussion) miss the point entirely.
|
|
Tiiulicious
Bubba Ho-Tep
Not much upstairs, but what a staircase! :)
Posts: 591
|
Post by Tiiulicious on Mar 3, 2012 19:58:41 GMT -5
Maybe my opinion is irrelevant since I only ever watch WWE programming these days if there is absolutely nothing else to watch and I can't be bothered to change the channel but what I have seen of The Miz, he entertains me.
He's witty, can wrestle a good match and is easy on the eyes. Yep, my standards for wrestling are fairly low these days. At least it's something new with him, after the endless Randy Orton, Triple H, John Cena crapola that ended my 10 year viewership in the first place.
He might not be Shawn Michaels or Kurt Angle but he can put a solid match together that doesn't make me fall asleep. That's a lot since I fell asleep 30 minutes into TLC PPV that I watched with my little brother.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 3, 2012 20:00:26 GMT -5
I should point out that there's a very good chance that he doesn't post here. No, but his is truly the only opinion that actually matters.
|
|
|
Post by Starshine on Mar 3, 2012 20:02:57 GMT -5
I should point out that there's a very good chance that he doesn't post here. No, but his is truly the only opinion that actually matters. Not if his opinion hurts business. Eg. XFL.
|
|
Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,149
|
Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 3, 2012 20:04:37 GMT -5
People are actually saying that the opinion of the casual fan doesn't matter? Wowee and you wonder why the WWE doesn't care what some of you think.
That just sounds like some of you have this mindset of "It doesn't appeal to me so it sucks and it should be taken off TV!" when you're clearly in the minority.
|
|
|
Post by Wrestling Curmudgeon on Mar 3, 2012 20:06:06 GMT -5
It's also no coincidence that some of the pure wrestling guys like Punk and Cena
|
|
|
Post by Cam on Mar 3, 2012 20:07:25 GMT -5
I still like Miz. He deserves better than whatever the hell he's doing atm.
|
|
|
Post by Starshine on Mar 3, 2012 20:09:52 GMT -5
People are actually saying that the opinion of the casual fan doesn't matter? Wowee and you wonder why the WWE doesn't care what some of you think. Jesus Christ dude, no one said that. You don't come off well when you try to make crap up.
|
|
Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,149
|
Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 3, 2012 20:13:00 GMT -5
People are actually saying that the opinion of the casual fan doesn't matter? Wowee and you wonder why the WWE doesn't care what some of you think. Jesus Christ dude, no one said that. You don't come off well when you try to make crap up. No one has said that, except when they did: Who cares about the average fan? Everyone here is talking about their own personal opinions, not what the majority think about him. The average fan likes Hornswoggle. To me, their opinions are invalid.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 3, 2012 20:16:30 GMT -5
I watch wrestling expecting good wrestling matches. Sure there's more, but I wouldn't watch it if the matches weren't fun to watch. If you're going to say that he doesn't "need" to have good matches, I will never agree with that. When you're over, match quality isn't the be-all and end-all of the job, at least in the eyes of the office. The more over Foley got, the worse his matches became. Hogan was notorious for his lousy matches, and don't forget Warrior. Did that stop any of them from being successful? I'm not comparing Miz to any of those guys in terms of talent, but the analogy is the same. You don't have to pull off a five star match every time you're in the ring to send the people away happy, and all of them (Miz included) had good matches in them. On a personal level, I'd happily wrestle either. I know the match with Bryan would be more likely to stand the test of time, but I'd also know both matches would have good heat. I do agree with you that Punk's reign has given more focus to the in-ring side of things, which is why the guys who are more talented than Miz in the ring are getting the shots.
|
|
BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
|
Post by BigWill on Mar 3, 2012 20:17:31 GMT -5
People are actually saying that the opinion of the casual fan doesn't matter? Wowee and you wonder why the WWE doesn't care what some of you think. That just sounds like some of you have this mindset of "It doesn't appeal to me so it sucks and it should be taken off TV!" when you're clearly in the minority. The casual fans opinions don't matter because this discussion isn't about them. Now if they want to come and post on this board then that would be a different story, but they're not. The discussion was about the opinions of everyone here on Miz, and his situation with his losing streak. The casual fans opinion doesn't matter because their opinion doesn't, or at least shouldn't affect everyone here's opinion. The people here who keep bringing up casual fans seem to just being using them as an argument against other people disliking Miz. So what if our opinions differ from the majority of the audiences? It's the internet, it's to be expected.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 3, 2012 20:22:06 GMT -5
No, but his is truly the only opinion that actually matters. Not if his opinion hurts business. Eg. XFL. I'm pretty sure Vince's feelings on what the casual fan likes and Miz's subsequent continued employment high on the card is not going to see the company shut down. Say what you will about his outside ventures, but Vince knows how to succeed in wrestling.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 20:23:35 GMT -5
Really, the only thing I'm trying to argue against is the idea that Miz is absolutely terrible in the ring or that he's a complete failure as a main-eventer. If people don't like him I don't really care, just the exaggeration from some rubs me the wrong way.
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,814
Member is Online
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 3, 2012 20:24:21 GMT -5
People are actually saying that the opinion of the casual fan doesn't matter? Wowee and you wonder why the WWE doesn't care what some of you think. That just sounds like some of you have this mindset of "It doesn't appeal to me so it sucks and it should be taken off TV!" when you're clearly in the minority. The casual fans opinions don't matter because this discussion isn't about them. Now if they want to come and post on this board then that would be a different story, but they're not. The discussion was about the opinions of everyone here on Miz, and his situation with his losing streak. The casual fans opinion doesn't matter because their opinion doesn't, or at least shouldn't affect everyone here's opinion. The people here who keep bringing up casual fans seem to just being using them as an argument against other people disliking Miz. So what if our opinions differ from the majority of the audiences? It's the internet, it's to be expected. Why should ANYONE'S opinion affect anyone else's? Who would be so weak-willed as to change their mind because of what someone else thinks?
|
|
|
Post by That Mickie Fan on Mar 3, 2012 20:27:28 GMT -5
He pussed out and almost caused R-Truth to break his neck and/or back. That's probably a big reason for his current status. I was never a fan of his to begin with, so it doesn't bother me. Maybe he'd be better off in TNA? Or exclusively on NXT or something. Really.... It was one screw up.
|
|
BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
|
Post by BigWill on Mar 3, 2012 20:27:29 GMT -5
The casual fans opinions don't matter because this discussion isn't about them. Now if they want to come and post on this board then that would be a different story, but they're not. The discussion was about the opinions of everyone here on Miz, and his situation with his losing streak. The casual fans opinion doesn't matter because their opinion doesn't, or at least shouldn't affect everyone here's opinion. The people here who keep bringing up casual fans seem to just being using them as an argument against other people disliking Miz. So what if our opinions differ from the majority of the audiences? It's the internet, it's to be expected. Why should ANYONE'S opinion affect anyone else's? Who would be so weak-willed as to change their mind because of what someone else thinks? Some people seem to think that it should. Or at least it feels that way anytime someone responds to a negative comment about a superstar with "Well they're over, so...", or something like that.
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 3, 2012 20:33:47 GMT -5
Really, the only thing I'm trying to argue against is the idea that Miz is absolutely terrible in the ring or that he's a complete failure as a main-eventer. If people don't like him I don't really care, just the exaggeration from some rubs me the wrong way. Likewise.
|
|