markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,192
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Post by markymark on Dec 19, 2019 17:56:56 GMT -5
I think it’s a combination of the “silly” gimmicks like the Dark Order and whatever Brandi is doing, and also the fact that they did not at all present and establish the Bucks and Omega as superstars as they should have. The Bucks and Omega have been presented as run-of-the-mill wrestlers when they should have gotten substantial pushes out of the gate to establish them to the “causal” audience that is not as familiar (or familiar at all) with their work. Because of that, we are 3 months in and their only real “stars” on the show are still just Jericho, Moxley and Cody. I wouldnt be surprised if Jericho vs Jungle Boy was the highest segment of the night, and people tuned out after that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 17:58:29 GMT -5
Well lemme' go fire up Pornhub then, because it seems I've gotta' develop a taste for cucking stories if I'm gonna' watch the superior wrestling company.
Yes, I intend on making variations of this joke every single time NXT beats AEW, why do you ask?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 18:00:00 GMT -5
I think it’s a combination of the “silly” gimmicks like the Dark Order and whatever Brandi is doing, and also the fact that they did not at all present and establish the Bucks and Omega as superstars as they should have. The Bucks and Omega have been presented as run-of-the-mill wrestlers when they should have gotten substantial pushes out of the gate to establish them to the “causal” audience that is not as familiar (or familiar at all) with their work. Because of that, we are 3 months in and their only real “stars” on the show are still just Jericho, Moxley and Cody. I remember a few weeks ago when Cody was cutting this promo. He said The Elite and Inner Circle will eventually lock up and it'll be great and yeah, when he said it I thought "man that might be good" but part of me thought "alright, so none of these dude besides Cody and Jericho have any real momentum" and since then it's continued. Realistically you're supposed to use that comment to set up the eventual match but it's like they haven't even gone in that direction at all. It's weird.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 19, 2019 18:05:22 GMT -5
No real need for excuses. This is a clear and decisive L on their part. NXT promoted the shit out of their show for the last two-three weeks and they were the clear winner. Does that mean AEW is shit? Hell no, that just means they have to hit the drawing board because facing the facts is they have been an up and down product quality and rating wise for a few weeks. The numbers will most likely return to normal in short order in terms of even but this is the first time they legit got punched in the jaw and have no excuses to back it up
Cody is going to look at this as a challenge and embrace it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 18:09:51 GMT -5
No real need for excuses. This is a clear and decisive L on their part. NXT promoted the shit out of their show for the last two-three weeks and they were the clear winner. Does that mean AEW is shit? Hell no, that just means they have to hit the drawing board because facing the facts is they have been an up and down product quality and rating wise for a few weeks. The numbers will most likely return to normal in short order in terms of even but this is the first time they legit got punched in the jaw and have no excuses to back it up Cody is going to look at this as a challenge and embrace it. Like Cody said, "excuses are for assholes, do the work." He's probably happy that both shows are doing well and he's probably looking at the future of AEW and exactly what they need to do in regards to criticism.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,192
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Post by markymark on Dec 19, 2019 18:11:47 GMT -5
No real need for excuses. This is a clear and decisive L on their part. NXT promoted the shit out of their show for the last two-three weeks and they were the clear winner. Does that mean AEW is shit? Hell no, that just means they have to hit the drawing board because facing the facts is they have been an up and down product quality and rating wise for a few weeks. The numbers will most likely return to normal in short order in terms of even but this is the first time they legit got punched in the jaw and have no excuses to back it up Cody is going to look at this as a challenge and embrace it. We know Cody isnt deaf tone, Butcher and Blade already jobbed out, Janela vs Spears already dropped probably due to poor reception, Britt got depushed due to poor performances.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 19, 2019 18:14:38 GMT -5
No real need for excuses. This is a clear and decisive L on their part. NXT promoted the shit out of their show for the last two-three weeks and they were the clear winner. Does that mean AEW is shit? Hell no, that just means they have to hit the drawing board because facing the facts is they have been an up and down product quality and rating wise for a few weeks. The numbers will most likely return to normal in short order in terms of even but this is the first time they legit got punched in the jaw and have no excuses to back it up Cody is going to look at this as a challenge and embrace it. Like Cody said, "excuses are for assholes, do the work." He's probably happy that both shows are doing well and he's probably looking at the future of AEW and exactly what they need to do in regards to criticism. The one major thing AEW does every week is fix what is broken and try to make something manageable in their work. They are trying to build stars and going through a trial and error period so any type of setback isn't one that is killing him, he looks at it as something to work on or drop it
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 19, 2019 18:15:26 GMT -5
No real need for excuses. This is a clear and decisive L on their part. NXT promoted the shit out of their show for the last two-three weeks and they were the clear winner. Does that mean AEW is shit? Hell no, that just means they have to hit the drawing board because facing the facts is they have been an up and down product quality and rating wise for a few weeks. The numbers will most likely return to normal in short order in terms of even but this is the first time they legit got punched in the jaw and have no excuses to back it up Cody is going to look at this as a challenge and embrace it. We know Cody isnt deaf tone, Butcher and Blade already jobbed out, Janela vs Spears already dropped probably due to poor reception, Britt got depushed due to poor performances. Yea, they fix shit on the fly and for better or worse it is the method they will keep using until something sticks and they get consistent stars and quality TV
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 19, 2019 18:19:25 GMT -5
I think it’s concerning for AEW that the demo more likely to tune into those other proceedings/current events is NXT’s strongest demo. Without that, this likely would have been even more of a disparity. I mean, it was all of the news shows being way up in the demographics compared to normal that led to both shows absolutely plummeting in the rankings so I mean, younger viewers clearly did turn in for all that, not sure what your point is. That wasn't a talking point for AEW last week so I don't see why it was this week Current news is def something more the older crowd lean towards and yes it does effect the current gen but I highly doubt they flipped off their TVs to watch it It is more likely NXT was able to dip into AEW younger pool as they have been doing for the last few weeks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 18:26:17 GMT -5
I mean, it was all of the news shows being way up in the demographics compared to normal that led to both shows absolutely plummeting in the rankings so I mean, younger viewers clearly did turn in for all that, not sure what your point is. That wasn't a talking point for AEW last week so I don't see why it was this week Current news is def something more the older crowd lean towards and yes it does effect the current gen but I highly doubt they flipped off their TVs to watch it It is more likely NXT was able to dip into AEW younger pool as they have been doing for the last few weeks Oh, I'm sure they did to some extent, but that only accounts for a little bit of a difference, not really a giant one, and last week was also pretty far down due to its own outside factors. I really think it applied to both of them mind you - I think even if the news weren't a factor NXT was probably winning this week between its momentum, the fact it rose anyway, and just putting on a stacked show, but I'm sure that was a factor in the fact both shows were as far down in the rankings as they are.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 18:26:27 GMT -5
eliminate the stuff getting bad quarterly hour ratings
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Post by Brian Suntan on Dec 19, 2019 18:47:43 GMT -5
Beating NXT week to week isn't the be all and end all, and the things they could do to bump ratings in the short term (signing ex-WWE stars, swerves, mystery angles, hot-shotting the title) aren't neccesarily good for the long term.
That said... the show just feels a bit stale already. I don't know what part of the show you can hang your hat on and say that it's must-see TV. The last time something happened on Dynamite that drew any real attention was Swagger joining.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Dec 19, 2019 18:55:07 GMT -5
I think it’s a combination of the “silly” gimmicks like the Dark Order and whatever Brandi is doing, and also the fact that they did not at all present and establish the Bucks and Omega as superstars as they should have. The Bucks and Omega have been presented as run-of-the-mill wrestlers when they should have gotten substantial pushes out of the gate to establish them to the “causal” audience that is not as familiar (or familiar at all) with their work. Because of that, we are 3 months in and their only real “stars” on the show are still just Jericho, Moxley and Cody. I definitely agree with this. It's "honourable" that they've taken a back seat and the Bucks and Omega weren't predictably crowned champs week one but they've taken it too far in the opposite direction with Omega especially. The Dark Order is one of the corniest, cheapest looking gimmicks I've ever seen too. I've only just seen the clip but the usual "cheer for everything" hardcore AEW crowd that give everything a chance could barely even muster a half hearted sympathy boo.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Dec 19, 2019 19:01:37 GMT -5
No real need for excuses. This is a clear and decisive L on their part. NXT promoted the shit out of their show for the last two-three weeks and they were the clear winner. Does that mean AEW is shit? Hell no, that just means they have to hit the drawing board because facing the facts is they have been an up and down product quality and rating wise for a few weeks. The numbers will most likely return to normal in short order in terms of even but this is the first time they legit got punched in the jaw and have no excuses to back it up Cody is going to look at this as a challenge and embrace it. Yup. Gotta take a few losses sometimes in order to see where your gameplan is lacking. Keeps you humble. In wrestling terms this is a "the better man won tonight. I'll try and get you next time" kinda deal. The numbers have been back and forth a couple times. Both companies will adapt as needed.
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Post by One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel on Dec 19, 2019 19:26:56 GMT -5
I mean, it was all of the news shows being way up in the demographics compared to normal that led to both shows absolutely plummeting in the rankings so I mean, younger viewers clearly did turn in for all that, not sure what your point is. That wasn't a talking point for AEW last week so I don't see why it was this week Current news is def something more the older crowd lean towards and yes it does effect the current gen but I highly doubt they flipped off their TVs to watch it It is more likely NXT was able to dip into AEW younger pool as they have been doing for the last few weeks When you specifically go after a type of millennial demo that's on the more politically aware side (I have no stats for this it's just from experience lol), major life events going down on Wednesdays are gonna be a problem when the card doesn't look so hot on paper to begin with. Unfortunately, that's not an excuse for them so much as it is the literal exact opposite, because if the cards are looking so cold from the outset that a f***ton of AEW's demo would rather watch politics, then that is extremely not good. Also, totally unrelated, but I think that some of their top guys really need to stop being as selfless as they are. It's gone from "d'aw nice gesture" to "dude please love yourself" pretty fast.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 19, 2019 19:33:54 GMT -5
That wasn't a talking point for AEW last week so I don't see why it was this week Current news is def something more the older crowd lean towards and yes it does effect the current gen but I highly doubt they flipped off their TVs to watch it It is more likely NXT was able to dip into AEW younger pool as they have been doing for the last few weeks When you specifically go after a type of millennial demo that's on the more politically aware side (I have no stats for this it's just from experience lol), major life events going down on Wednesdays are gonna be a problem when the card doesn't look so hot on paper to begin with. Unfortunately, that's not an excuse for them so much as it is the literal exact opposite, because if the cards are looking so cold from the outset that a f***ton of AEW's demo would rather watch politics, then that is extremely not good. Also, totally unrelated, but I think that some of their top guys really need to stop being as selfless as they are. It's gone from "d'aw nice gesture" to "dude please love yourself" pretty fast. Of course. Without diving into it too much the current climate is leaning more towards the younger side but I just never got that specific vibe from the AEW audience at least not as their major factor But in saying that, I 100% agree it is time for Omega, Bucks to stop and say f*** that noise we are the draws and need to act like it. I said this a month into AEW and it still rings true now, Omega (and now the Bucks) do not feel special. If you came into this show not knowing who they was, they are just dudes who do cool moves but that's about it. No one is saying go full Jarrett but as much as I love Jericho, he is not going to move the needle like those boys can. I would say the damning thing is, no one is getting over by beating them per se. The only one to really sustain that momentum has been Moxley by beating Omega. PAC is dangerous but not a must see, PnP are damn good but just took an L to the Bucks, SCU got really nothing in defeat. As much as they want this all of us is contributing feeling, you boys are the straw that stirs this drink and need to start acting like it
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Dec 19, 2019 20:01:03 GMT -5
I mean, NXT did put forth a better show on paper. Even just looking at the card it was going to just be a much better show. The thing is that it never really seems that NXT can maintain the lead. Every once in a while they can put on a really big show, but they can't maintain from week to week. AEW on the other hand usually does put on shows of at least consistent quality.
They've beaten AEW three times: Once when there was a promise of Raw and Smackdown retaliation, once in the Survivor Series Fallout and once with an uber stacked card. They always seem like they have to do something big to beat AEW, but AEW always seem to win without having to do much.
Fair play to NXT for a great show but I'm not worried.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 20:07:49 GMT -5
Without sounding like Russo AEW really needs to consider how to appeal to the casual fans. Yup. I agree with Russo on one thing when it comes to weekly TV wrestling; casual fans watch to see the entrance and the finish. Characters and promos are the backbone of weekly wrestling TV. Sell me on the characters and the stories, not the wrestling. I was hyped af for Jericho/Cody. They need that energy and style for all of their characters. If you give me 10-20 minutes of repetitive video game style wrestling that has no selling or psychology in it, then eventually the viewer will tune out. I’ll be honest, I don’t watch WWE or NXT, so I’m the casual/lapsed fan that would love to have an alternative succeed, but AEW is just not doing it properly. NXT can do the video game style of wrestling just as well if not better and are under the WWE umbrella so brand recognition in on their side. AEW needs to differentiate itself. NXT is not the problem. I really don’t think there’s much overlap in the viewers. But AEW’s ratings falling means the lapsed fans like me are just not staying to watch it, and that’s a problem. It’s completely fixable, but they need to recognize it first.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Dec 19, 2019 20:37:12 GMT -5
Without sounding like Russo AEW really needs to consider how to appeal to the casual fans. Yup. I agree with Russo on one thing when it comes to weekly TV wrestling; casual fans watch to see the entrance and the finish. Characters and promos are the backbone of weekly wrestling TV. Sell me on the characters and the stories, not the wrestling. I was hyped af for Jericho/Cody. They need that energy and style for all of their characters. If you give me 10-20 minutes of repetitive video game style wrestling that has no selling or psychology in it, then eventually the viewer will tune out. I’ll be honest, I don’t watch WWE or NXT, so I’m the casual/lapsed fan that would love to have an alternative succeed, but AEW is just not doing it properly. NXT can do the video game style of wrestling just as well if not better and are under the WWE umbrella so brand recognition in on their side. AEW needs to differentiate itself. NXT is not the problem. I really don’t think there’s much overlap in the viewers. But AEW’s ratings falling means the lapsed fans like me are just not staying to watch it, and that’s a problem. It’s completely fixable, but they need to recognize it first. I think this is what Jericho is getting at, there's a lot that needs tightened up. They're still doing fine, but if they ever expect to grow they have to do what they did the first few weeks. While Sports Entertainment is kind of a dirty word, they've had their biggest success when they were mixing their signature in ring action with the balls to the wall insanity that American pro wrestling is known for outside the ring. The first several weeks weren't just hot because it was all new, but because they had a clear story they were building to. They had Cody Vs. Jericho being built, a beginning of Inner Circle Vs. The Elite, Moxley Vs. Omega, Pac Vs. Hangman. You had some must see matches that were being built to with segments, great matches and fire promos. So they need to get Omega on the mic, have him talk up his impending showdown with Pac, hit the ground running with Mox Vs. Jericho ASAP, Cody Vs. MJF could be the classice face heel dynamic pro wrestling is known for, and most importantly start having the Inner Circle act more like an actual stable again as opposed to a loose collection of heel wrestlers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 21:07:10 GMT -5
Yup. I agree with Russo on one thing when it comes to weekly TV wrestling; casual fans watch to see the entrance and the finish. Characters and promos are the backbone of weekly wrestling TV. Sell me on the characters and the stories, not the wrestling. I was hyped af for Jericho/Cody. They need that energy and style for all of their characters. If you give me 10-20 minutes of repetitive video game style wrestling that has no selling or psychology in it, then eventually the viewer will tune out. I’ll be honest, I don’t watch WWE or NXT, so I’m the casual/lapsed fan that would love to have an alternative succeed, but AEW is just not doing it properly. NXT can do the video game style of wrestling just as well if not better and are under the WWE umbrella so brand recognition in on their side. AEW needs to differentiate itself. NXT is not the problem. I really don’t think there’s much overlap in the viewers. But AEW’s ratings falling means the lapsed fans like me are just not staying to watch it, and that’s a problem. It’s completely fixable, but they need to recognize it first. I think this is what Jericho is getting at, there's a lot that needs tightened up. They're still doing fine, but if they ever expect to grow they have to do what they did the first few weeks. While Sports Entertainment is kind of a dirty word, they've had their biggest success when they were mixing their signature in ring action with the balls to the wall insanity that American pro wrestling is known for outside the ring. The first several weeks weren't just hot because it was all new, but because they had a clear story they were building to. They had Cody Vs. Jericho being built, a beginning of Inner Circle Vs. The Elite, Moxley Vs. Omega, Pac Vs. Hangman. You had some must see matches that were being built to with segments, great matches and fire promos. So they need to get Omega on the mic, have him talk up his impending showdown with Pac, hit the ground running with Mox Vs. Jericho ASAP, Cody Vs. MJF could be the classice face heel dynamic pro wrestling is known for, and most importantly start having the Inner Circle act more like an actual stable again as opposed to a loose collection of heel wrestlers. Pretty much every Cody/Jericho segment leading up to their match was gold, and exactly the type of stuff AEW should have plastered all over the show. I know people laugh at "BRING BACK THE ATTITUDE ERA!!!1111!", but that type of format is solely missing in wrestling right now. The WWE can probably do "video game wrestling" just as well if not better than AEW. The one thing WWE can't do, and hasn't done for 15+ years, is be able to build characters and do compelling long-term storylines. This is where AEW needs to shine. If their 2 hour show is just going to be match-match-match-Jericho promo-match-match-match, it's not going to work over time. If they cut all their matches to 5 minutes or less, and just had a story driven show, they'd accomplish two things: 1) they'd have a distinct competitive advantage over WWE, and 2) they'd differentiate themselves enough to stand out.
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