Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,127
|
Post by Mecca on Apr 21, 2022 14:33:49 GMT -5
After reading that, I'm kind of glad that NXT 2.0 is turning out to be a failure. Well I mean alarm bells should have been going off the moment that Breakker won back the NXT title on the RAW after Wrestlemania (where they tend to have the hottest crowds) to deafening silence. That should tell you right there that 2.0 is failing. Not to mention the ratings have been pretty abysmal compared to Black and Gold. And while NXT 2.0 has some okay characters, you can't honestly look at any of the new 2.0 acts and say they are future world champions right now either. Same goes for the NXT 2.0 women. What they're doing would be fine if it was a network only show and treated like true developmental, but its not.
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,756
Member is Online
|
Post by Bo Rida on Apr 21, 2022 14:37:43 GMT -5
Dave and Bryan talked about it on Observer Radio last night, but Dave mentioned from what he understands, the loss to Stratton is meant to send a message that women like Sarray have no future in the company basically. That management is giving up on her, and they are pushing for fans to do the same. And that while they PROBABLY won't cut her, they likely won't renew her contract because she doesn't fit what Bruce and Vince want these days which is a tall, athletic, good looking woman. Which is one of the reasons why Io Shirai isn't on the callup list either, because apparently she doesn't tick any of these arbitrary new boxes either, and why she took the pin at Stand and Deliver. I remember there also being chatter that Bruce and Vince were more impressed with Raquel than they were with Io when they had their dark match together, despite the audience being firmly on the side of Io. We are firmly on our way back to looks trumping actual skill in the ring or charisma it seems. It's kind of mind blowing how different the top 2 American companies are right now... You have WWE actively burying Japanese talents and basically having zero interest in doing anything with them at all. While AEW is announcing the NJPW supershow. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if AEW was more popular in Japan than WWE is right now. If it's not it almost certainly will be by the end of the year, between the njpw and ddt/tjpw deals and crossovers they'll reach a lot of potential fans. Long way from the NXT Japan plan.
|
|
|
Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 21, 2022 15:10:36 GMT -5
Dave and Bryan talked about it on Observer Radio last night, but Dave mentioned from what he understands, the loss to Stratton is meant to send a message that women like Sarray have no future in the company basically. That management is giving up on her, and they are pushing for fans to do the same. And that while they PROBABLY won't cut her, they likely won't renew her contract because she doesn't fit what Bruce and Vince want these days which is a tall, athletic, good looking woman. Which is one of the reasons why Io Shirai isn't on the callup list either, because apparently she doesn't tick any of these arbitrary new boxes either, and why she took the pin at Stand and Deliver. I remember there also being chatter that Bruce and Vince were more impressed with Raquel than they were with Io when they had their dark match together, despite the audience being firmly on the side of Io. We are firmly on our way back to looks trumping actual skill in the ring or charisma it seems. Is 5'5/5'6 billed considered tall and athletic for a woman by current Vince & Bruce standards? Wondering now what someone else cut from similar cloth to Sarray and Io as in being a darn good wrestler, I'd said equally athletic and good looking woman to them but not a giantess. I don't think height really matters much with the women as it does with the men. Mainly because there's much less of a height range. With the men you got several guys 6'5" to 7'0" and you also got several who are only 5'8" to 5'10". While with the women 90% of the roster are probably 5'3" to 5'8" which is only five inches. I think with the women it's mostly about beauty and physique with them. Being taller is still a plus and a benefit but if a girl is a little on the short side but still looks really good it's not an issue. Mandy is a good example of that as I would say she's below average height wise at around 5'3" if I had to guess but she's super pretty and has a great body. Would they prefer if she was say 5'7" to 5'9" instead? Probably but it's not something that they are really going to look at as reason not to push her either with the other things they like about her look wise.
|
|
|
Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 21, 2022 15:13:35 GMT -5
Is 5'5/5'6 billed considered tall and athletic for a woman by current Vince & Bruce standards? Wondering now what someone else cut from similar cloth to Sarray and Io as in being a darn good wrestler, I'd said equally athletic and good looking woman to them but not a giantess. I don't think height really matters much with the women as it does with the men. Mainly because there's much less of a height range. With the men you got several guys 6'5" to 7'0" and you also got several who are only 5'8" to 5'10". While with the women 90% of the roster are probably 5'3" to 5'8" which is only five inches. I think with the women it's mostly about beauty and physique with them. Being taller is still a plus and a benefit but if a girl is a little on the short side but still looks really good it's not an issue. Mandy is a good example of that as I would say she's below average height wise at around 5'3" if I had to guess but she's super pretty and has a great body. Would they prefer if she was say 5'7" to 5'9" instead? Probably but it's not something that they are really going to look at as reason not to push her either with the other things they like about her look wise. Yeah height matters less but I do think they're trying to move away from the Zelina/Alexa Bliss types that are really short.
|
|
|
Post by MrElijah on Apr 21, 2022 15:23:21 GMT -5
Not to go off topic but if they are on their bullshit, how Taya Valkyrie didn't fit into their plans.
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,127
|
Post by Mecca on Apr 21, 2022 15:24:29 GMT -5
Not to go off topic but if they are on their bullshit, how Taya Valkyrie didn't fit into their plans. She's 38, that's why.
|
|
|
Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 21, 2022 15:25:03 GMT -5
Well I mean alarm bells should have been going off the moment that Breakker won back the NXT title on the RAW after Wrestlemania (where they tend to have the hottest crowds) to deafening silence. That should tell you right there that 2.0 is failing. Not to mention the ratings have been pretty abysmal compared to Black and Gold. And while NXT 2.0 has some okay characters, you can't honestly look at any of the new 2.0 acts and say they are future world champions right now either. Same goes for the NXT 2.0 women. What they're doing would be fine if it was a network only show and treated like true developmental, but its not. I mean it is treated like a true developmental show. It's just promoted differently than other developmental shows in the past.
|
|
|
Post by MrElijah on Apr 21, 2022 15:27:45 GMT -5
Not to go off topic but if they are on their bullshit, how Taya Valkyrie didn't fit into their plans. She's 38, that's why. I keep forgetting that she's close to 40.
|
|
|
Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 21, 2022 15:30:14 GMT -5
I don't think height really matters much with the women as it does with the men. Mainly because there's much less of a height range. With the men you got several guys 6'5" to 7'0" and you also got several who are only 5'8" to 5'10". While with the women 90% of the roster are probably 5'3" to 5'8" which is only five inches. I think with the women it's mostly about beauty and physique with them. Being taller is still a plus and a benefit but if a girl is a little on the short side but still looks really good it's not an issue. Mandy is a good example of that as I would say she's below average height wise at around 5'3" if I had to guess but she's super pretty and has a great body. Would they prefer if she was say 5'7" to 5'9" instead? Probably but it's not something that they are really going to look at as reason not to push her either with the other things they like about her look wise. Yeah height matters less but I do think they're trying to move away from the Zelina/Alexa Bliss types that are really short. That makes sense and I'm honestly fine with that as I've always found Zelina and Alexa too tiny to be taken seriously as credible wrestlers. However if someone is a little bit on the shorter side but not tiny or painfully short and looks athletic then I don't think it should be an issue.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Apr 21, 2022 15:43:42 GMT -5
Dave and Bryan talked about it on Observer Radio last night, but Dave mentioned from what he understands, the loss to Stratton is meant to send a message that women like Sarray have no future in the company basically. That management is giving up on her, and they are pushing for fans to do the same. And that while they PROBABLY won't cut her, they likely won't renew her contract because she doesn't fit what Bruce and Vince want these days which is a tall, athletic, good looking woman. Which is one of the reasons why Io Shirai isn't on the callup list either, because apparently she doesn't tick any of these arbitrary new boxes either, and why she took the pin at Stand and Deliver. I remember there also being chatter that Bruce and Vince were more impressed with Raquel than they were with Io when they had their dark match together, despite the audience being firmly on the side of Io. We are firmly on our way back to looks trumping actual skill in the ring or charisma it seems. I listened to the Observer Radio segment discussing this and unless it was in a different portion of the show, what you wrote here is not really what was said, there’s some editorializing going on with the whole “meant to send a message” and that they’re “pushing for the fans to give up on her.” There was no mention of being attractive or good looking either. Just a size argument. The actual quote from Meltzer for those curious: “I don’t like her chances, but I haven’t liked her chances since the day she arrived. And then, when they went in a new direction, I really didn’t like her chances at that point. I don’t imagine they’re ever going to bring her to the main roster… As long as she’s there, she’s just going to be just, you know, doing nothing. I don’t want to say wasting her time, because she’s making a lot more money than she would make elsewhere. Unlike Kushida, who probably would’ve made more money staying home. But, he had to experiment. It was funny, because, when he left, that was kind of my thought is like, “He’s all wrong for leaving.” There’s some guys, like Nakamura is like six foot two. So, it’s like, he’s got some size to him and he’s very charismatic. So, I thought that there was always a chance for him. They did push him at times and didn’t at other times. But, like, Sarray, just is… She’s small and it just feels like… Io Shirai’s not even on the main roster. So, it’s like, yeah. Yeah, I don’t like her chances.”
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 21, 2022 16:18:56 GMT -5
To the OP; I need more evidence than your assumptions that WWE's directive with the women is as sinister as you're implying. Because this looks like the usual ineffective yo-yo booking they do with talents all over the world.
|
|
|
Post by mistery on Apr 21, 2022 16:22:42 GMT -5
To the OP; I need more evidence than your assumptions that WWE's directive with the women is as sinister as you're implying. Because this looks like the usual ineffective yo-yo booking they do with talents all over the world. I mean the evidence is clearly right on TV right now. You have Shinsuke getting chumped on by Roman for no reason, Io ate the pin in the fatal four way and isn't on the callup list despite being one of the most popular fan favorites in NXT and was the most protected woman in NXT (especially in a match where KLR or Cora could have eaten the pin just fine), WWE made no effort to try and keep Kushida around and he ended up leaving, and Ikeman Jiro got made to look like a complete fool against Von Wagoner. And then you have Sarray who is buried ten feet under right now, with WWE making no effort to try and actually make her look like even remotely a threat, along with being given a gimmick that is racially questionable. Notice a pattern here? Everyone getting chumped on is Japanese/Asian. And it's only them being targeted specifically right now. And has been for awhile. Keep in mind that they rendered Asuka completely ineffective (kayfabe wise) at the end of 2020 and through half of 2021 as well. You would have to be blind to not connect the dots right now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2022 16:30:56 GMT -5
I just want Nikki Cross to show up in NXT and them to a do a short term supervillain / anime princess feud.
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 21, 2022 16:31:43 GMT -5
To the OP; I need more evidence than your assumptions that WWE's directive with the women is as sinister as you're implying. Because this looks like the usual ineffective yo-yo booking they do with talents all over the world. I mean the evidence is clearly right on TV right now. You have Shinsuke getting chumped on by Roman for no reason, Io ate the pin in the fatal four way and isn't on the callup list despite being one of the most popular fan favorites in NXT and (key word: was) the most protected woman in NXT (especially in a match where KLR or Cora could have eaten the pin just fine), WWE made no effort to try and keep Kushida around and he ended up leaving, and Ikeman Jiro got made to look like a complete fool against Von Wagoner. And then you have Sarray who is buried ten feet under right now, with WWE making no effort to try and actually make her look like even remotely a threat. Notice a pattern here? Everyone getting chumped on is Japanese/Asian. And it's only them being targeted specifically right now. And has been for awhile. Keep in mind that they rendered Asuka completely ineffective (kayfabe wise) at the end of 2020 and through half of 2021 as well. You would have to be blind to not connect the dots right now. To me it looks like the usual Vince blind spots he's had for years since he seems to be more hands-on with 2.0. But we don't have Jean Grey powers, so only he knows how much hate's allegedly in his heart over this. Which is why I had to move some posts. We can't start going into the booking team's specific political policy beliefs. Off limits. And....carry on.
|
|
|
Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 21, 2022 16:39:28 GMT -5
To the OP; I need more evidence than your assumptions that WWE's directive with the women is as sinister as you're implying. Because this looks like the usual ineffective yo-yo booking they do with talents all over the world. I mean the evidence is clearly right on TV right now. You have Shinsuke getting chumped on by Roman for no reason, Io ate the pin in the fatal four way and isn't on the callup list despite being one of the most popular fan favorites in NXT and was the most protected woman in NXT (especially in a match where KLR or Cora could have eaten the pin just fine), WWE made no effort to try and keep Kushida around and he ended up leaving, and Ikeman Jiro got made to look like a complete fool against Von Wagoner. And then you have Sarray who is buried ten feet under right now, with WWE making no effort to try and actually make her look like even remotely a threat, along with being given a gimmick that is racially questionable. Notice a pattern here? Everyone getting chumped on is Japanese/Asian. And it's only them being targeted specifically right now. And has been for awhile. Keep in mind that they rendered Asuka completely ineffective (kayfabe wise) at the end of 2020 and through half of 2021 as well. You would have to be blind to not connect the dots right now. I mean the Nakamaura thing could have just been them getting heat to set up a potential match. Io is injured(so we don't know if she will called up), Kushida was brought in by Hunter and doesn't fit the main roster for because he's short and doesn't speak English very well(which unless you have natural charisma like Nakamuara is going to be a problem) so why they keep him just for him to stay in NXT forever. Asuka was literally champion for 231 days before Rhea beat her and then she got injured she may have not been built like Roman Reigns but being champion for 231 days is a long f***ing time lol. Sarray is the only one that's really questionable to me and even then she has the short and can't speak English problem which I am sorry isn't really a race thing as much as how they like to present their tv product thing.
|
|
|
Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 21, 2022 16:46:43 GMT -5
Also, I want to make it clear, that WWE definitely has some blind spots and implicit bias in how they think. But I do think I understand their thinking when it comes to pushing talent that cannot cut promos in English and that makes it hard to push them long term in the WWE product that is centered on promos and segments.
The reason Nak & Asuka have done so well is that they have the charisma that can break through the language barrier outside of just being a good wrestler which is only going to take you so far in WWE. Maybe, Sarray doesn't have that quality? I am not sure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2022 16:47:20 GMT -5
I am not gonna sway to saying Vince is a racist but it is pretty egreious when you look at how all the Japanese talent are being treated...at the same time.
They basically completely non canoned Asukas reign during the pandemic by having commentary Becky say she had been on a 300+ day reign ignoring she gave up the title.
Nakamura got bitched out and is going to get bitched out if he is next in line to getting a match with Roman
Kushida left
Jiro is just a laughing stock
Sarray is a complete non entity
The only one I am willing to give a bit of leeway to right now because of circumstance is Io just because she is injured but even then her complete de-emphasising has been obvious ever since she dropped the womens title to Raquel.
Like it can't be sheer coincidence IMO.
|
|
|
Post by mistery on Apr 21, 2022 16:47:50 GMT -5
I mean the evidence is clearly right on TV right now. You have Shinsuke getting chumped on by Roman for no reason, Io ate the pin in the fatal four way and isn't on the callup list despite being one of the most popular fan favorites in NXT and was the most protected woman in NXT (especially in a match where KLR or Cora could have eaten the pin just fine), WWE made no effort to try and keep Kushida around and he ended up leaving, and Ikeman Jiro got made to look like a complete fool against Von Wagoner. And then you have Sarray who is buried ten feet under right now, with WWE making no effort to try and actually make her look like even remotely a threat, along with being given a gimmick that is racially questionable. Notice a pattern here? Everyone getting chumped on is Japanese/Asian. And it's only them being targeted specifically right now. And has been for awhile. Keep in mind that they rendered Asuka completely ineffective (kayfabe wise) at the end of 2020 and through half of 2021 as well. You would have to be blind to not connect the dots right now. I mean the Nakamaura thing could have just been them getting heat to set up a potential match. Io is injured(so we don't know if she will called up), Kushida was brought in by Hunter and doesn't fit the main roster for because he's short and doesn't speak English very well(which unless you have natural charisma like Nakamuara is going to be a problem) so why they keep him just for him to stay in NXT forever. Asuka was literally champion for 231 days before Rhea beat her and then she got injured she may have not been built like Roman Reigns but being champion for 231 days is a long f***ing time lol. Sarray is the only one that's really questionable to me and even then she has the short and can't speak English problem which I am sorry isn't really a race thing as much as how they like to present their tv product thing. It doesn't really matter if its setting up a potential match. It was entirely unnecessary and felt calculated. SRS has already said he hasn't seen Io on any of the lists he has gotten when it comes to callups when asked about it. Asuka's reigns as champion were very poorly booked as she still never felt like the focus of the division, and during the latter half of 2020 and 2021 she had her momentum completely killed by The Fiend (Bliss). And then made to constantly look like a chump in the Charlotte/Lacey feud, and then got absolutely no comeuppance on Rhea despite being chumped on nonstop by her. And kept looking like an idiot even after losing the title. Also this is a hot take but after that Nikkita/Natalya promo from last Tuesday, Sarray sounds like The Rock or Stone Cold compared to those two, promo wise.
|
|
|
Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 21, 2022 16:57:10 GMT -5
I mean the Nakamaura thing could have just been them getting heat to set up a potential match. Io is injured(so we don't know if she will called up), Kushida was brought in by Hunter and doesn't fit the main roster for because he's short and doesn't speak English very well(which unless you have natural charisma like Nakamuara is going to be a problem) so why they keep him just for him to stay in NXT forever. Asuka was literally champion for 231 days before Rhea beat her and then she got injured she may have not been built like Roman Reigns but being champion for 231 days is a long f***ing time lol. Sarray is the only one that's really questionable to me and even then she has the short and can't speak English problem which I am sorry isn't really a race thing as much as how they like to present their tv product thing. It doesn't really matter if its setting up a potential match. It was entirely unnecessary and felt calculated. SRS has already said he hasn't seen Io on any of the lists he has gotten when it comes to callups when asked about it. Asuka's reigns as champion were very poorly booked as she still never felt like the focus of the division, and during the latter half of 2020 and 2021 she had her momentum completely killed by The Fiend (Bliss). And then made to constantly look like a chump in the Charlotte/Lacey feud, and then got absolutely no comeuppance on Rhea despite being chumped on nonstop by her. And kept looking like an idiot even after losing the title. Also this is a hot take but after that Nikkita/Natalya promo from last Tuesday, Sarray sounds like The Rock or Stone Cold compared to those two, promo wise. How is a heel getting heat on a face unnecessary? Faces get their ass kicked by heels sometimes. That doesn't mean it's because the dude is Asian. Asuka has been booked like an upper mid carder in WWE. She's not going to be booked as the focus of the division because she isn't the focus of the division. That doesn't mean she's been booked bad. It's just that more people are important than her. Which is fine because she's an upper mid-carder and that happens. The way some of y'all be talking about Asuka's booking would have me thinking she's booked like Nikki ASH lol Natayla was fine in her promo. Nikkita needs work in the promo department but hey that's why she's in developmental but she has a great look that I think will help her get over if she improves in that area.
|
|
asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,491
|
Post by asuka007 on Apr 21, 2022 17:23:45 GMT -5
I mean Vince is the same guy who had to be told about Asian porn sites so that he’d hire Gail Kim.
Booking Asian talent well has never been his strong point at least.
|
|