Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,127
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Post by Mecca on Apr 21, 2022 17:29:09 GMT -5
Also, I want to make it clear, that WWE definitely has some blind spots and implicit bias in how they think. But I do think I understand their thinking when it comes to pushing talent that cannot cut promos in English and that makes it hard to push them long term in the WWE product that is centered on promos and segments. The reason Nak & Asuka have done so well is that they have the charisma that can break through the language barrier outside of just being a good wrestler which is only going to take you so far in WWE. Maybe, Sarray doesn't have that quality? I am not sure. Kushida speaks fluent English, why did they have him talk in broken english in any promo he did? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2022 17:32:08 GMT -5
I mean Vince is the same guy who had to be told about Asian porn sites so that he’d hire Gail Kim. Booking Asian talent well has never been his strong point at least. That story will never not be the most baffling but scary insight into Vince. JR had to show this man porn to get him to understand why people find asian women attractive in order to then get him to understand Gail Kim. And if Vince was that far gone back then about asian people who knows where the hell his mind is at now. |
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Post by mistery on Apr 21, 2022 17:45:33 GMT -5
It doesn't really matter if its setting up a potential match. It was entirely unnecessary and felt calculated. SRS has already said he hasn't seen Io on any of the lists he has gotten when it comes to callups when asked about it. Asuka's reigns as champion were very poorly booked as she still never felt like the focus of the division, and during the latter half of 2020 and 2021 she had her momentum completely killed by The Fiend (Bliss). And then made to constantly look like a chump in the Charlotte/Lacey feud, and then got absolutely no comeuppance on Rhea despite being chumped on nonstop by her. And kept looking like an idiot even after losing the title. Also this is a hot take but after that Nikkita/Natalya promo from last Tuesday, Sarray sounds like The Rock or Stone Cold compared to those two, promo wise. How is a heel getting heat on a face unnecessary? Faces get their ass kicked by heels sometimes. That doesn't mean it's because the dude is Asian. Asuka has been booked like an upper mid carder in WWE. She's not going to be booked as the focus of the division because she isn't the focus of the division. That doesn't mean she's been booked bad. It's just that more people are important than her. Which is fine because she's an upper mid-carder and that happens. The way some of y'all be talking about Asuka's booking would have me thinking she's booked like Nikki ASH lol Natayla was fine in her promo. Nikkita needs work in the promo department but hey that's why she's in developmental but she has a great look that I think will help her get over if she improves in that area. Lets be clear. Normally there is nothing wrong with a heel getting heat. The problem is that it's Roman Reigns, who is never, ever allowed to look weak. Even Brock was never allowed to lay him out. Assuming they do feud, it's just going to be several weeks (or even less) of Roman constantly chumping Shinsuke. I think you can count on one hand how many times Roman has been laid out since the Bloodline formed. And it's not a lot. |
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Post by 06vwgti on Apr 21, 2022 18:20:27 GMT -5
Sarray is the only one that's really questionable to me and even then she has the short and can't speak English problem which I am sorry isn't really a race thing as much as how they like to present their tv product thing. And if she has trouble speaking english book around the limitations, use a manager, etc. But then again, trying to book around people's limitations is hard for the WWE due to their historical biases and putting talent in unfavorable situations. |
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Post by 06vwgti on Apr 21, 2022 18:28:43 GMT -5
Also, I want to make it clear, that WWE definitely has some blind spots and implicit bias in how they think. But I do think I understand their thinking when it comes to pushing talent that cannot cut promos in English and that makes it hard to push them long term in the WWE product that is centered on promos and segments. The reason Nak & Asuka have done so well is that they have the charisma that can break through the language barrier outside of just being a good wrestler which is only going to take you so far in WWE. Maybe, Sarray doesn't have that quality? I am not sure. Yet if WWE wants to appeal to international audiences and be seen as a global company, maybe they should treat their international talent better especially when it comes to recruiting. This is the same company that said Cesaro was too swiss to be pushed and that's not a good look to me when the owner says something like that publicly on their own podcast If word of mouth spreads through their foreign talent that the experience was not good, more are going to be wary of signing. |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,127
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Post by Mecca on Apr 21, 2022 18:31:54 GMT -5
Also, I want to make it clear, that WWE definitely has some blind spots and implicit bias in how they think. But I do think I understand their thinking when it comes to pushing talent that cannot cut promos in English and that makes it hard to push them long term in the WWE product that is centered on promos and segments. The reason Nak & Asuka have done so well is that they have the charisma that can break through the language barrier outside of just being a good wrestler which is only going to take you so far in WWE. Maybe, Sarray doesn't have that quality? I am not sure. Yet if WWE wants to appeal to international audiences and be seen as a global company, maybe they should treat their international talent better especially when it comes to recruiting. This is the same company that said Cesaro was too swiss to be pushed and that's not a good look to me when the owner says something like that publicly on their own podcast If word of mouth spreads through their foreign talent that the experience was not good, more are going to be wary of signing. The only countries they seem to try to desperately hire from to get viewers are China and India, everywhere else they're like yea whatever. I think they feel like places like Europe and Australia will show up for tours regardless, they don't care about Japan.. |
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Post by mistery on Apr 21, 2022 18:40:50 GMT -5
Yet if WWE wants to appeal to international audiences and be seen as a global company, maybe they should treat their international talent better especially when it comes to recruiting. This is the same company that said Cesaro was too swiss to be pushed and that's not a good look to me when the owner says something like that publicly on their own podcast If word of mouth spreads through their foreign talent that the experience was not good, more are going to be wary of signing. The only countries they seem to try to desperately hire from to get viewers are China and India, everywhere else they're like yea whatever. I think they feel like places like Europe and Australia will show up for tours regardless, they don't care about Japan.. They barely even care about China. It also doesn't help that unlike almost every other region (incl Japan), them pushing into China is a fools errand because of all the regulations and the fact that every single wrestling promotion that has tried to run shows there ended up folding. Where there is actual growth potential in Japan, considering they tried to keep KAIRI around, I think they realized that since she's one of, if not the most popular women's wrestler in Japan nowadays. And Io isn't far behind either, and Sarray was rising up the ranks before she left, which makes them sabotaging Japanese talent even more baffling. |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,127
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Post by Mecca on Apr 21, 2022 18:41:55 GMT -5
The only countries they seem to try to desperately hire from to get viewers are China and India, everywhere else they're like yea whatever. I think they feel like places like Europe and Australia will show up for tours regardless, they don't care about Japan.. They barely even care about China. It also doesn't help that unlike almost every other region (incl Japan), them pushing into China is a fools errand because of all the regulations and the fact that every single wrestling promotion that has tried to run shows there ended up folding. I think they basically gave up on China after trying that some years back, Xia is all that's left and I wouldn't be surprised if she's released soon. India though they are catering hard for that one. |
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 7,923
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 21, 2022 19:05:28 GMT -5
Nakamura got bitched out and is going to get bitched out if he is next in line to getting a match with Roman I don't think Shinsuke is going to be the next challenger for Roman. Meltz says that they are shooting the angle for the Backlash Main Event on the next Smackdown, and my guess is that after having him lose 6 title shots, WWE knows that nobody is buying Shinsuke as having a hope in hell. Hence why tomorrow, Roman is going to almost certainly get a different dancing partner for Backlash. |
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Post by J is Thunder Justice on Apr 21, 2022 19:10:59 GMT -5
Nakamura got bitched out and is going to get bitched out if he is next in line to getting a match with Roman I don't think Shinsuke is going to be the next challenger for Roman. Meltz says that they are shooting the angle for the Backlash Main Event on the next Smackdown, and my guess is that after having him lose 6 title shots, WWE knows that nobody is buying Shinsuke as having a hope in hell. Hence why tomorrow, Roman is going to almost certainly get a different dancing partner for Backlash. Wow, so Roman beat the crap out of him for no reason? That's even worse! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2022 19:18:19 GMT -5
So WWE will just let their chief rival basically corner the Japanese market for all the extrordinary talent and develop company relationships that will lock them out while they burrow their empty skulls into markets they have not been able to produce an actual legit viable star out of...ever.
And the one woman they have out of China they do nothing with.
The sheer brilliance I tells ya lol.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,127
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Post by Mecca on Apr 21, 2022 19:34:14 GMT -5
So WWE will just let their chief rival basically corner the Japanese market for all the extrordinary talent and develop company relationships that will lock them out while they burrow their empty skulls into markets they have not been able to produce an actual legit viable star out of...ever. And the one woman they have out of China they do nothing with. The sheer brilliance I tells ya lol. This would likely be the response.. We've never drawn very well in Japan, what we do doesn't fit their wrestling culture. But it's a small country and we'll focus on India where there are more people. Also we are a proven draw in US, Mexico, Canada, Europe and Australia. Then they'd probably throw out that they're gonna sell out that UK PPV at some absurd number like 80k. And it being WWE they'd likely tell you how WCW partnered with Japan while they didn't and it meant dick. |
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 21, 2022 19:50:32 GMT -5
So WWE will just let their chief rival basically corner the Japanese market for all the extrordinary talent and develop company relationships that will lock them out while they burrow their empty skulls into markets they have not been able to produce an actual legit viable star out of...ever. And the one woman they have out of China they do nothing with. The sheer brilliance I tells ya lol. This would likely be the response.. We've never drawn very well in Japan, what we do doesn't fit their wrestling culture. But it's a small country and we'll focus on India where there are more people. Also we are a proven draw in US, Mexico, Canada, Europe and Australia. Then they'd probably throw out that they're gonna sell out that UK PPV at some absurd number like 80k. And it being WWE they'd likely tell you how WCW partnered with Japan while they didn't and it meant dick. There's some fairness in that last point; basically every competitor to WWE since the 90s has partnered with NJPW or other puro companies in some capacity, and it's not like it puts them over the top. That said, puro is now more visible in the US than it's ever been; NJPW being able to sell out MSG, albeit during Wrestlemania weekend, was something WWE definitely took notice of, and it happened because people don't have to trade tapes anymore to see someone like Okada work regularly, they just have to pay around $8-$9 a month. I'll say it again, I do see the logic in WWE wanting to develop people internally and seeking out people with athletic backgrounds and not a ton of history in pro wrestling, but the narrow funnel they force people through is what's really jarring. To use NJPW as an example again, they were able to bring Juice Robinson (former CJ Parker) in, and Juice requested to go through the dojo training. While he didn't get the "full experience" that native Japanese young boys get, in large part because they knew he already had training in the US and had been featured on NXT, he still learned and grew a ton and NJPW had a very marketable star with him until pandemic times hit. They didn't sit back and say "Well, he can't speak Japanese..." or "Look at his hair, our audience won't connect with him!" or some such nonsense. Jesus, NJPW's main event scene currently includes Jay White, Will Ospreay, and Zack Sabre Jr., who are all superlative in the ring, highly charismatic, and over as hell, yet none of them besides Zack integrate more than a couple of words of Japanese into their promos. And while I understand that promos aren't considered as important to puro as they are in American wrestling, it doesn't change that Japan has its issues as often a pretty insular culture, yet the fans are happy to embrace and cheer, boo, or otherwise enjoy foreign talent, and there's really zero reason why companies like WWE, which claims to be so global in nature, can't expect American audiences to embrace a foreign talent if given the chance and some decent booking. So go ahead and sign young people with little wrestling experience, build them from the ground up if you like, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but open up to the idea of having some greater diversity, not only in terms of ethnicity and language but in style, presentation, size, shape, in-ring style, etc. |
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Post by mistery on Apr 21, 2022 19:57:48 GMT -5
So WWE will just let their chief rival basically corner the Japanese market for all the extrordinary talent and develop company relationships that will lock them out while they burrow their empty skulls into markets they have not been able to produce an actual legit viable star out of...ever. And the one woman they have out of China they do nothing with. The sheer brilliance I tells ya lol. This would likely be the response.. We've never drawn very well in Japan, what we do doesn't fit their wrestling culture. But it's a small country and we'll focus on India where there are more people. Also we are a proven draw in US, Mexico, Canada, Europe and Australia. Then they'd probably throw out that they're gonna sell out that UK PPV at some absurd number like 80k. And it being WWE they'd likely tell you how WCW partnered with Japan while they didn't and it meant dick. The funny thing is, WWE isn't going to say that as a response as it would fly in the face of everything Nick Khan says to investors, which is that the Japanese market is very important to them (lol), and whenever they go over there, they do very well in terms of ticket sales (which is 100% true as they usually sell out or come very close to selling out for a two night show, with roughly 4000 tickets each night). The kicker right now though is that in his infinite wisdom, they lost their TV deal over there because of...reasons I guess? jSports wanted to keep the deal going, but WWE just...ended the relationship because they wanted a better TV deal, which they ended up not getting, so now they are desperately shopping around. And like HMARK mentioned above, WWE loves to tout how they are an international company but in reality they aren't. Japan is a market they can absolutely get a foothold in, they just are too afraid to do so or are too lazy. It also plays against companies creative in that they think you need to stand out in the ring for 10 minutes and cut long promos. Or that you need to "look a certain way" to be a star. Which it's pretty obvious that WWE doesn't see Shinsuke, Io, Asuka, Sarray, Tozawa, etc as stars they want to feature on regular advertising or anything. Why? I dunno. |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,127
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Post by Mecca on Apr 21, 2022 20:08:25 GMT -5
This would likely be the response.. We've never drawn very well in Japan, what we do doesn't fit their wrestling culture. But it's a small country and we'll focus on India where there are more people. Also we are a proven draw in US, Mexico, Canada, Europe and Australia. Then they'd probably throw out that they're gonna sell out that UK PPV at some absurd number like 80k. And it being WWE they'd likely tell you how WCW partnered with Japan while they didn't and it meant dick. The funny thing is, WWE isn't going to say that as a response as it would fly in the face of everything Nick Khan says to investors, which is that the Japanese market is very important to them (lol), and whenever they go over there, they do very well in terms of ticket sales (which is 100% true as they usually sell out or come very close to selling out for a two night show, with roughly 4000 tickets each night). The kicker right now though is that in his infinite wisdom, they lost their TV deal over there because of...reasons I guess? jSports wanted to keep the deal going, but WWE just...ended the relationship because they wanted a better TV deal, which they ended up not getting, so now they are desperately shopping around. And like HMARK mentioned above, WWE loves to tout how they are an international company but in reality they aren't. Japan is a market they can absolutely get a foothold in, they just are too afraid to do so or are too lazy. It also plays against companies creative in that they think you need to stand out in the ring for 10 minutes and cut long promos. Or that you need to "look a certain way" to be a star. Which it's pretty obvious that WWE doesn't see Shinsuke, Io, Asuka, Sarray, Tozawa, etc as stars they want to feature on regular advertising or anything. Why? I dunno. Cause the WWE is run by a bunch of old white guys who buy into racist tropes? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2022 20:13:47 GMT -5
And isn't this in line with what Minoru Suzuki said sometime ago not an exact quote but something along the lines of Mexico and Japan are the last bastions of wrestling and they have to keep WWE out.
Now I know that was about when all the kick up about NXT doing a worldwide takeover was happening but still seems very appropriate now...Japans top promotion aligning with AEW...WWE's failed attempt to buy the likes of Stardom have effectively f***ed them over there and now they have no Japanese TV deal.
Maybe WWE does not see it as a important market to their grand scheme but atleast within wrestling that is hugely important and seeing as AEW has inroads to both Mexico and Japan aligning with the top promotions and you have none despite touting your global dominance etc not the best of looks.
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knsffa
Team Rocket
Missed This Place and People
Posts: 796
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Post by knsffa on Apr 21, 2022 21:04:41 GMT -5
So WWE will just let their chief rival basically corner the Japanese market for all the extrordinary talent and develop company relationships that will lock them out while they burrow their empty skulls into markets they have not been able to produce an actual legit viable star out of...ever. And the one woman they have out of China they do nothing with. I'm thinking Xia ends up coming to Raquel's aid against Nattie/Shayna being 'the protector' and all. Of course, whether she does anything of note after that few week if even that feud who knows. I'm sure someone in Stamford is gushing to do the Lacey/Raquel team. I replied about it earlier but deleted and will add it here instead. The only Japanese talent signed to WWE who seems to be getting a good run is Meiko who oddly enough is on the brand with no oversight from Stamford that anyone is aware of. I feel that says a lot. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2022 21:08:04 GMT -5
So WWE will just let their chief rival basically corner the Japanese market for all the extrordinary talent and develop company relationships that will lock them out while they burrow their empty skulls into markets they have not been able to produce an actual legit viable star out of...ever. And the one woman they have out of China they do nothing with. I'm thinking Xia ends up coming to Raquel's aid against Nattie/Shayna being 'the protector' and all. Of course, whether she does anything of note after that few week if even that feud who knows. I'm sure someone in Stamford is gushing to do the Lacey/Raquel team. I replied about it earlier but deleted and will add it here instead. The only Japanese talent signed to WWE who seems to be getting a good run is Meiko who oddly enough is on the brand with no oversight from Stamford that anyone is aware of. I feel that says a lot. That is why I would not be opposed to sending the likes of Io to NXT UK. Sure next to no one watches it right now but I think she would bring some eyes over and for the most part she would be part of a show that would actually value her if Meiko is anything to go by. |
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gl83
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,063
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Post by gl83 on Apr 21, 2022 21:13:15 GMT -5
So WWE will just let their chief rival basically corner the Japanese market for all the extrordinary talent and develop company relationships that will lock them out while they burrow their empty skulls into markets they have not been able to produce an actual legit viable star out of...ever. And the one woman they have out of China they do nothing with. I'm thinking Xia ends up coming to Raquel's aid against Nattie/Shayna being 'the protector' and all. Of course, whether she does anything of note after that few week if even that feud who knows. I'm sure someone in Stamford is gushing to do the Lacey/Raquel team. I replied about it earlier but deleted and will add it here instead. The only Japanese talent signed to WWE who seems to be getting a good run is Meiko who oddly enough is on the brand with no oversight from Stamford that anyone is aware of. I feel that says a lot. Oddly enough, a couple weeks ago they had Xia Li working as a Heel during a dark match against Aliyah. So, who knows what they have planned |
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Post by mistery on Apr 21, 2022 21:28:54 GMT -5
I'm thinking Xia ends up coming to Raquel's aid against Nattie/Shayna being 'the protector' and all. Of course, whether she does anything of note after that few week if even that feud who knows. I'm sure someone in Stamford is gushing to do the Lacey/Raquel team. I replied about it earlier but deleted and will add it here instead. The only Japanese talent signed to WWE who seems to be getting a good run is Meiko who oddly enough is on the brand with no oversight from Stamford that anyone is aware of. I feel that says a lot. Oddly enough, a couple weeks ago they had Xia Li working as a Heel during a dark match against Aliyah. So, who knows what they have planned I don't think they have any idea what to do with their Asian talent right now, alignment wise. I also question the value of certain stars on the main roster right now as well. Aliyah isn't bringing anything to the table, even when she was featured she was underwhelming at best. I mentioned it earlier, but next month is "Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month", which NBCU takes a very active role in celebrating (and WWE assists in). Io is likely still going to be gone due to her injury, but Sarray is healthy. But they made the mistake of jobbing her out to Tiffany last Tuesday when it absolutely did not need to happen, so her being the face of the WWE side of the deal would be...uh...not great unless they give her a sudden injection of credibility, which they won't. I guess they could bring Asuka back, but I doubt people will take her seriously considering they pretty much retconned both her RAW Women's Championship reigns during the pandemic going by the story being told, along with her being kind of a complete loser right before she left to get her dental work done along with her shoulder fixed up. Basically anything WWE puts forward next month is going to ring incredibly hollow and scream of "cheap PR". |
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