To all the Hogan Bashers

[hollywood]

godz said:

joshwoodrum said:

sorry but when I say Hogan is more entertaining than ROh thats not opinion its fact

Damn. Now you go and say something like that.....

That's obviously not a fact because we're all entertained by different things. SOMEONE obviously thought "Soul Plane" was a good idea.

I love Hogan and think ROH (And a great deal of their fans) is a joke, but, a helluva lot of people obviously think otherwise.

So what does it make me if I'm a fan of ROH and Hogan?

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

hollywood said:

godz said:

Damn. Now you go and say something like that.....

That's obviously not a fact because we're all entertained by different things. SOMEONE obviously thought "Soul Plane" was a good idea.

I love Hogan and think ROH (And a great deal of their fans) is a joke, but, a helluva lot of people obviously think otherwise.

So what does it make me if I'm a fan of ROH and Hogan?

.........HE'S A WITCH!!

[amsiraK]

Luckier than most. At least you have a better chance of enjoying yourself!

[JoshWoodrumGreaterThanHBK]

okay... maybe it is an opinion.... but really i gotta ask.... what makes ROH so entertaining? Really? I really wanna know.... I've seen some matches..... i even like one or two.... but what makes it better than WWE? i dont see it... i dont get it.....

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

skskillz said:

loki said:

It never cease to amaze me how many non-Hulkamaniacs weren't even born, or were in diapers when Hulkamania was at its peak or already declining...

Watching it on tape some years later it's NOT the same thing than witnessing it "live".

Everyone's entitled to their opinon, but I can't really judge something I wasn't around to see just because I've watched/read/heard things about it.

Wow Loki, you seem to be posting my thoughts exactly in every thread.

It irritates me beyond belief when people judge Hogan despite not even being a fetus when he was in his prime. Most of the posters here know him more for his work in WCW, and that wasn't even close to his prime. Then you have people talking about Hogan's work in the '80's as if it was nothing special and mundane...then you find out the people making those comments are 16 years old. It's mind boggling.

For example, I never watched the NWA growing up. Not one time. So when an NWA thread pops up, guess what? I don't comment. What good is my opinion on a subject I don't have any knowledge in? Even if I popped in a tape of the NWA right this minute, it wouldn't mean anything because it's not the '80's anymore. My mind is older. My tastes are different. It's not going to mesh with the style the NWA had back then. I'm not going to have any sentimental attachment to the characters, thereby making the feuds and/or storylines less meaningful for me. And so on.

Why is it so hard for others to follow that? I'm not saying you can never comment on something you weren't around to see, but you MUST put time period and age into account. If you don't, then you're opinion is meaningless.

As for Hogan's moveset, repetition is VITAL in wrestling or any form of entertainment. American wrestling fans paid to see Hogan hulk up and win. Just like they paid to see a Stunner or People's Elbow in the late-90's. They didn't want to see chain wrestling or spotfests from those particular individuals. So why should Hogan be blamed for following a formula that 1) made a crapload of money and 2) didn't put as much strain on his body as a Dynamite Kid type style would have? If you're happy knowing that Mick Foley and Kurt Angle won't be able to walk in 3 years because they entertained you for a few years, then that's your right. If a wrestler can entertain me without doing that, more power to them.

And just to add on this...a lot of people cry about the Legdrop.

Well guess what. It started in an era when elbow drops and big splashes were finishers, and before that, a match ending after a dropkick or a hiptoss was perfectly acceptable to the crowd.

"Finishers" didn't become anything close to what they are today until Jake Roberts brought out the DDT, and even that was a rarity in that day and age, that "cool" of an impact manuver.

Yes, the Legdrop isn't as flashy as today's flippity flop, but hell, it was enough to beat Andre the Giant, Randy Savage, and hundreds of others.....I'll believe that over a 190 pound 790 moonflip any day of the week.

Oh, and anyone who's ever cried about the Legdrop has lost their right to speak if they enjoyed the People's Elbow or The Worm, moves with about 1/10th the impact of a 303 pound Legdrop that were considered perfectly credible finishers in the 21st century (Well, the Elbow anyhow)

[amsiraK]

Maybe they just like it better? Who knows what drives the heart of man?

It's all taste and preference. ROH is more heavily athletic than the WWE. It doesn't make it better, but it appeals to some people who prefer that sort of thing.

[hollywood]

joshwoodrum said:

okay... maybe it is an opinion.... but really i gotta ask.... what makes ROH so entertaining? Really? I really wanna know.... I've seen some matches..... i even like one or two.... but what makes it better than WWE? i dont see it... i dont get it.....

I don't know if it's BETTER, but I do find it more entertaining currently. (But I never get to see SmackDown, though)

[skskillz]

godz said:

And just to add on this...a lot of people cry about the Legdrop.

Well guess what. It started in an era when elbow drops and big splashes were finishers, and before that, a match ending after a dropkick or a hiptoss was perfectly acceptable to the crowd.

"Finishers" didn't become anything close to what they are today until Jake Roberts brought out the DDT, and even that was a rarity in that day and age, that "cool" of an impact manuver.

Yes, the Legdrop isn't as flashy as today's flippity flop, but hell, it was enough to beat Andre the Giant, Randy Savage, and hundreds of others.....I'll believe that over a 190 pound 790 moonflip any day of the week.

Oh, and anyone who's ever cried about the Legdrop has lost their right to speak if they enjoyed the People's Elbow or The Worm, moves with about 1/10th the impact of a 303 pound Legdrop that were considered perfectly credible finishers in the 21st century (Well, the Elbow anyhow)

Agreed on all points. Savage's elbow was actually considered a really high spot back then. When people today look down on the move as "just being an elbow", it drives me bonkers.

Those same people don't seem to have a problem with Shawn's Kick of Death, though.

[hollywood]

skskillz said:

godz said:

And just to add on this...a lot of people cry about the Legdrop.

Well guess what. It started in an era when elbow drops and big splashes were finishers, and before that, a match ending after a dropkick or a hiptoss was perfectly acceptable to the crowd.

"Finishers" didn't become anything close to what they are today until Jake Roberts brought out the DDT, and even that was a rarity in that day and age, that "cool" of an impact manuver.

Yes, the Legdrop isn't as flashy as today's flippity flop, but hell, it was enough to beat Andre the Giant, Randy Savage, and hundreds of others.....I'll believe that over a 190 pound 790 moonflip any day of the week.

Oh, and anyone who's ever cried about the Legdrop has lost their right to speak if they enjoyed the People's Elbow or The Worm, moves with about 1/10th the impact of a 303 pound Legdrop that were considered perfectly credible finishers in the 21st century (Well, the Elbow anyhow)

Agreed on all points. Savage's elbow was actually considered a really high spot back then. When people today look down on the move as "just being an elbow", it drives me bonkers.

Those same people don't seem to have a problem with Shawn's Kick of Death, though.

People don't like Savage's elbow drop!? I still think that's one of the best aerial moves ever? Yeesh, some people are hard to please!

[skskillz]

hollywood said:

People don't like Savage's elbow drop!? I still think that's one of the best aerial moves ever? Yeesh, some people are hard to please!

No kidding. I've seen a number of posters on other boards passing it off as "just an elbow drop", and it angers me every time. I guess because Shawn does it as a set-up to SCM nowadays, younger fans don't seem to think it's a big deal.

I still consider the elbow as one of the best finishers of all-time. It was both realistic and a nice visual.

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

Savage's elbow AND Shawn's are both excellent, IMO. Hell, I don't even mind Test's, but it starts and ends with Savage's.

[hollywood]

skskillz said:

hollywood said:

People don't like Savage's elbow drop!? I still think that's one of the best aerial moves ever? Yeesh, some people are hard to please!

No kidding. I've seen a number of posters on other boards passing it off as "just an elbow drop", and it angers me every time. I guess because Shawn does it as a set-up to SCM nowadays, younger fans don't seem to think it's a big deal.

I still consider the elbow as one of the best finishers of all-time. It was both realistic and a nice visual.

Savage's flying elbow was just kickass. I liked how he used to wave his arm a time or two before landing on the guy. I swear if he'd hit Spider-Man with it, Spidey's career would've ended before it started.

And I like SCM as much as the next guy, but I still think an elbow being driven into your chest from over 10 feet in the air would hurt a helluva lot more than HBK kicking you in the face.

But we've strayed off topic now...

[skskillz]

That's one of my main issues with SCM. He hits a more high impact move BEFORE doing it (flying elbow). Shawn's elbow doesn't look to have as much force as Savage's, but it's still a damn good finisher. Savage's looked vicious, especially when his elbow connected squarely into the opponent's chest.

The fact that the DDT and flying elbow are now transitional moves is a bit sad. I wonder when the Stunner will be bastardized.

[The Boss]

godz said:

And just to add on this...a lot of people cry about the Legdrop.

Well guess what. It started in an era when elbow drops and big splashes were finishers, and before that, a match ending after a dropkick or a hiptoss was perfectly acceptable to the crowd.

"Finishers" didn't become anything close to what they are today until Jake Roberts brought out the DDT, and even that was a rarity in that day and age, that "cool" of an impact manuver.

Yes, the Legdrop isn't as flashy as today's flippity flop, but hell, it was enough to beat Andre the Giant, Randy Savage, and hundreds of others.....I'll believe that over a 190 pound 790 moonflip any day of the week.

Oh, and anyone who's ever cried about the Legdrop has lost their right to speak if they enjoyed the People's Elbow or The Worm, moves with about 1/10th the impact of a 303 pound Legdrop that were considered perfectly credible finishers in the 21st century (Well, the Elbow anyhow)

Most young fans don't understand the concept of a finisher. They think that it's this magic move that can beat anyone at anytime. That's just silly. A finisher is a final blow given to an opponent that has been beaten down after a hard fought match.

Let's look at HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN'S use of the legdrop. He never brags about how his devastating legdrop, nor has he ever claimed that it is a devastating move.

With a few variations depending on the opponent, HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN'S strategy is usually as follows.

1) The Opening Attack
HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN starts all of his matches off with a quick offense. Using his size and strength advantage HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN throws everything he has at his opponent catching off guard. He does not give his opponent a chance to get their barings. His moves are quick, consisting of bodyslams, running lariats, atomic drops, straight right hands, suplexes, corner clotheslines, turnbuckle smashes and other high impact moves forcing his opponent to reach into his reserves early.

That is a key factor in HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN'S attack plan.

2) The Rest
After delivering such a heart pounding attack HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN is naturally winded himself. So he takes a back step and allows his opponent to go on the offense to use up the rest of their energy. HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN allows himself to get caught in rest holds that he can endure, while dishing out just enough offense to prevent the opponent from recovering.

This is very similar to Mohammad Ali's Rope-a-dope technique.

3) The Comeback
Once the opponent has used the last of his energy (usually signified by the attempt at a finisher) HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN reaches into his own reserves (HULKS up) and prepares to finish off his now exhausted opponent. The powerful kick out and shaking of the head is an intimidation factor to show the opponent how much energy he still has left. He delivers a few punches to put the opponent on the defense then send them into the ropes and delivers a big boot.

This is to both stun the opponent and to set them up for...

The Final Blow
With his exhausted opponent on the ground stunned, HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN drops the leg across their chest and goes for the pin.

Now if you're lying on the ground exhausted and stunned and a 300lbs man drops all of his weight across your chest, that's going to knock the wind out of you. As any athlete can tell you, when you get the wind knocked out of you, you become unable to move for several seconds. Well, three seconds is all HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN needs.

No one has ever been injured by HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN'S finisher. Nor has anyone (other than a jobber) ever been beaten quickly by the legdrop. The one exception being his Victory over Yokozuna. But Yokozuna had just wrestled a 20 min match against Bret Hart. At 550lbs, he was in no condition to wrestle a fresh HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN. And Mr. Fuji throwing salt in his face didn't help either.

Is the legdrop a devastating manuver by itself? No. But it is they way, and more importantly when it is used that makes is so effective.

[Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone]

I WAS A BIG FAN OF hollywood hulk hogan BACK IN HIS HEYDAY AND I LOVED HIM BACK WHEN I WAS GROWING UP AS MUCH AS ANYONE. BUT THE SAD TRUTH IS THAT hollywood hulk hogan CAN BARELY EVEN MOVE IN THE RING ANYMORE AND THAT IS NOT HOW I WANT TO REMEMBER HIM. HIS LAST MATCH WITH RANDY ORTON WAS PAINFUL. I WANT hollywood hulk hogan TO BE REMEMBERED FONDLY, NOT AS A GUY WHO WOULDNT GO AWAY.

["Hollywood" Cactus Matt]

lenny said:

I WAS A BIG FAN OF hollywood hulk hogan BACK IN HIS HEYDAY AND I LOVED HIM BACK WHEN I WAS GROWING UP AS MUCH AS ANYONE. BUT THE SAD TRUTH IS THAT hollywood hulk hogan CAN BARELY EVEN MOVE IN THE RING ANYMORE AND THAT IS NOT HOW I WANT TO REMEMBER HIM. HIS LAST MATCH WITH RANDY ORTON WAS PAINFUL. I WANT hollywood hulk hogan TO BE REMEMBERED FONDLY, NOT AS A GUY WHO WOULDNT GO AWAY.

Is your CAPS button stuck?

Or are you dyslexic?

[Deleted]

Can we just get this and the other HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN thread locked?

[The Boss]

skskillz said:

The fact that the DDT and flying elbow are now transitional moves is a bit sad. I wonder when the Stunner will be bastardized.

Um, hate to break it to you, but the neck breaker drop was a standard move long before "Stinko" Steve started using it. Diamond Dallas Page (The Diamond Cutter) and HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN (The HOLLYWOOD Cutter) have used it for years. It is so standard in fact that there is also the reverse neckbreaker (Rick Rude) and spinning neckbreaker (Honky Tonk Man).

["Hollywood" Cactus Matt]

theboss said:

skskillz said:

The fact that the DDT and flying elbow are now transitional moves is a bit sad. I wonder when the Stunner will be bastardized.

Um, hate to break it to you, but the neck breaker drop was a standard move long before "Stinko" Steve started using it. Diamond Dallas Page (The Diamond Cutter) and HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN (The HOLLYWOOD Cutter) have used it for years. It is so standard in fact that there is also the reverse neckbreaker (Rick Rude) and spinning neckbreaker (Honky Tonk Man).

Hollywood Cutter??

[skskillz]

theboss said:

skskillz said:

The fact that the DDT and flying elbow are now transitional moves is a bit sad. I wonder when the Stunner will be bastardized.

Um, hate to break it to you, but the neck breaker drop was a standard move long before "Stinko" Steve started using it. Diamond Dallas Page (The Diamond Cutter) and HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN (The HOLLYWOOD Cutter) have used it for years. It is so standard in fact that there is also the reverse neckbreaker (Rick Rude) and spinning neckbreaker (Honky Tonk Man).

Well, you kind of made my point for me. The Diamondcutter was DDP's finish. The Stunner was Austin's (and it's not the same as a Cutter). Those aren't transitional moves.....yet. The DDT is used in mid-match nowadays. Shawn uses the flying elbow as a set-up to a KICK! At least Orton uses the Cutter (or Crusher) as a finish. Once we start seeing that as a transitional move, then we're in trouble.

The neck breaker (Rude's version) has been used in transition for years. It wasn't nearly as highly sold as Savage's elbow or Jake's DDT. Those two were arguably the two best finishes in the '80's (and I guess the Stunner and Cutter apply in the '90's).