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Post by SOR on Aug 12, 2013 3:52:10 GMT -5
From another board: I've been tracking down the tickets sales for Bound For Glory since the day they went on sale and I can confirm you that around 2800 tickets have been sold so far. I believe this is a good number considering that we are still 2 months away from the event. Don't know how credible it is since it's just a fan but if they really have sold 2800 already with no matches announced then we could probably see the biggest BFG crowd ever this year. You can check out ticketmaster.com right now and count exactly how many seats are left/were sold. I don't know how to do that but: The floor is entirely sold out which would be about a thousand seats and they've sold out 7 other sections if the map on the first page is correct (Unable to buy tickets in sections P, N, M, L, K, J, H I think that fits the 2500-3000 estimation although if I'm wrong I'd love someone to tell me so.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 23:13:47 GMT -5
Roode shouldn't be teaming with these two guys. He needs to be TNA's version of Triple H in 2003-2004.
2 big guys to help him keep the World Heavyweight Title and a Legend to mentor him. Keeps a vice grip on the World Heavyweight Title for 2-3 years.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 23:00:39 GMT -5
I'm 4 minutes in and the guys who started (Not you, Tower) are throwing random finishers in just as random spots. The one guy (Psymon?) had the weakest kicks I've ever seen. I don't think he has to stiff people but at least make it look real.
I think you yourself personally play the big guy role well and at least you have gear that is somewhat decent.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 22:46:14 GMT -5
I've seen a couple of episodes but the fans who closely follow the NWA (The ENTIRE NWA) are in love with the company. I was turned off by the cell phone promo's I saw on one of their commercials though and couldn't go back.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 22:43:45 GMT -5
It's becoming easier for Australian talent to be seen with PWA Australia (Located in Sydney) having links to SHIMMER whilst Zero 1 Australia obviously has links to Zero 1 Japan.
The fantastic All Action Wrestling in Perth has links with Orlando Jordan also who would have a ton of contacts. The problem is we're just not very good and not many wrestlers stand out. That's why 200 people is considered a good crowd over here.
As for the original question. I'd say China. They have New Beijing Pro Wrestling but the cards are filled with DDT Japan guys and they only run a couple times a year.
As for South Korea, I believe there is a promotion there affiliated with an NWA Texas promotion but they ran 3 shows in 2008-2009 and never ran again so I think it's safe to say they are defunct.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 22:02:21 GMT -5
Well lets look at it logically: Pre Hogan TV Taping attendeance: When on the road baout 1500- 2000 paid give or take Post Hogan TNA numbers for TV About 3500-4000. Pay Per Views draw more. Now apart from Hogan, Sting, Angle and Hardy who do you think a majority of the fans are coming out for? Why do Hogan and Sting get the biggest pops on the show by far? In terms of merchandising, licensing, getting into new area's with the TV Show, Being able to advertise in new area's Hulk is golden for them. Someone like AJ Styles (As talented as he is) cannot be an instant recognizable name on your local radio show and talk you into coming to the show. With Hulk Hogan, you have someone who can. You then throw in all the money he makes for TNA and you've definitely got a good investment. And nobody except internet fans are turned off by Hulk and TNA has them hooked already with Aries, Daniels, Joe, Styles etc. Before you continue with these numbers, if you can even substantiate them: how much money does Hogan get paid? How much does he make for them, by comparison? Does TNA even make money on its road tapings, with Hogan included? Sustaining Hogan's TV time gets in the way of promoting other talent. At the end of the day, everything revolves around Hogan. The largest concern is not so much that he can't draw (in terms of merch, tix, ratings), it's that he's not really worth the effort that it takes to use him. Hulk makes 30,000 dollars a week if you listen to the internet so he would make a yearly wage of 1.4 million dollars and some change (To the tune of about 40,000 dollars) I feel this number is accurate so we'll say he makes 1.4 million a year (For argument sake) TNA doesn't pay all of this 30,000 dollars a week I would assume Spike pays 10-15 thousand a week to pay Hulk. Lets say they pay 10,000 a week and TNA actually spends 960,000 a year on Hulk. First the main stuff he's involved in. Licensing. I don't know what he'd be making but each time someone wants to dip into the Hulk Hogan piece of pie TNA gets a cut of what Hulk gets. Lets say he's making a million dollars a year in licensing this would be a low ball figure because apparently Flair makes around the same. TNA is entitled to 10-20% as the "Agent" of any money that comes in from 2010-2013 from licensing or whatever. In 2011 Hulk did a video game, TNA would of got 10-20% of whatever Hulk got from that and I assume they paid Hulk quite a pretty penny for it. From licensing etc alone lets say TNA makes 200k a year from it (Again a low figure) then we go into commercials. If an international TV Channel wants Hulk Hogan to stand in front of a green screen and say "HEY FANS IN (X Country) WATCH TNA ON SATURDAY NIGHTS ONLY ON (Insert Channel) they have to pay for that. Lets assume we're looking at 5k per commercial (Again a low figure) with TNA airing in 61 countries if even 30 of those international tv stations do it TNA would be walking away with 15,000 dollars for advertising their own company. Then another one, personal appearances. If an independent wrestling promoter wants to have Hulk turn up and sign autographs TNA gets an agency fee. So if Hulk makes 30k to go hang out for a few hours at an indy show TNA is making money for nothing. Throw in TV appearances and this would be a big one for them. Lets say Hulk does 10 of these a year TNA would probably pocket 30,000 a year from it. Now onto the actual TNA work he does. Lets say Hulk appears for TNA at 4 signings this year (For the major PPV's) TNA charges about a hundred bucks for an autograph and photo for Hulk. He can get 200-300 in line for that. That's 20-30 thousand right there, 4 times a year that's 120,000 dollars If we go onto attendance lets say Hogan by himself draws 500 fans a fortnight to an Impact taping (Again, Not unrealistic) Lets say all the Hogan fans sit in the cheap seats and pay their 25 dollars. That's 25,000 dollars a month and 300,000 dollars a year right into TNA's pockets. Throw in the 4 PPV's and that's another 100k or so. Right into TNA's pocket. This isn't even including where TNA draws past 3000-4000 in places like England or when Hulk appears on House Shows (Like in England) At 25 bucks for a T-Shirt lets low ball the figure and say he sells five thousand T-Shirts in a year (Which again, is pretty low) at that price he's making the company another 125,000. Throw in the Bandana's, Action Figures, Dog Tags, Photo's, Costumes etc and you can probably add another 50,000 on top. As the figures currently stand this breaks TNA about even. This isn't including DVD's they sell because Hulk is on the cover, TV deals they may get thanks to Hulk, Xplosion commercials (Back in 2010 Hulk did the Xplosion commercials here in Australia) or anything else that Hulk may earn TNA. You then throw in all the perks of having Hogan on board such as free advertising, increased sponsorship, legitimacy and a bunch of other things and you really have to question who outside of Hogan is doing more for TNA then him. I know people are going to debate these numbers but I've decreased them massively in an attempt to make everyone happy. As for the response to the rest of your post. Does TNA make money on it's tapings? Honestly, the actual show attendance wise probably not. What people don't realize is that TNA gets paid to provide programming for the other 60 countries outside the United States and Television Stations pay a lot of money for programming. They also make money off Xplosion which is filmed before Impact. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say TNA probably breaks even when they do Impact.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 20:44:09 GMT -5
EXACTLY. And that's 100% fine. My entire argument isn't what I want but what I feel would help TNA grow. If it were up to me Austin Aries would be World Champion and he'd be feuding with AJ Styles. And here is everyone else's argument: TNA isn't growing and won't be growing, so what is so wrong about providing the audience they have with the most customer-friendly product they can? That argument is idiotic though because TNA is growing. Hypothetically though lets say TNA wasn't growing. Wouldn't it be more intelligent to cater your product to EVERYBODY instead of a niche part of the market? ROH caters to a niche market and they're way behind TNA despite being around for the same time. You act like, SOR, that TNA was a nothing promotion before Hulk Hogan graced them with his presence. TNA had a number of international tv clearance before Hogan. They did big business in the UK before Hogan. They sold merchadise before Hogan (Jeff Hardy is still the top cash cow in the promotion). I'm not denying Hulk still has name value (nowhere near where it was a decade ago) but let's not act like he's the savior of TNA. If Hulkster left the company tomorrow, they will keep on trucking without skipping a beat. And how old that interview was that Bischoff did on that hack podcast? About 4 years old? How about some recent updates from Eric since everything is peachy? I rather see some hard numbers instead of someone saying "Everything is all right. Pay no attention to what you heard.". TNA was doing okay pre Hogan. It wasn't a nothing promotion but it was struggling to draw the people into the buildings and get away from the Impact Zone. I don't doubt Jeff sells the most either, I'm saying Hulk is up there in terms of merchandise sales. Not saying he's a savior or anything of the sort but is he beneficial to TNA? Yes. If Hogan left TNA tomorrow you are correct, they probably wouldn't die. Attendance would go down though and they'd probably have to return full time to Universal Studio's Florida or another Studio.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 20:25:52 GMT -5
The things SOR says aren't all that different from the things that I've said about "casual fans" myself. I just don't opt to lie down and accept because it's what they want, because what they want is what I usually find to be shitty wrestling TV. EXACTLY. And that's 100% fine. My entire argument isn't what I want but what I feel would help TNA grow. If it were up to me Austin Aries would be World Champion and he'd be feuding with AJ Styles.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 20:02:42 GMT -5
Please produce actual numbers for the increase that Hogan has brought to TNA in terms of attendance, revenue, and tv clearance. And by actual numbers, I mean articles talking about that. I posted an interview up here in another thread a few days ago where Eric Bischoff discussed that TNA made tons of money in licensing for Hulk. Away from that you have merchandise (That sells every show) for the more technical stuff you could make the argument that the newer TV Stations that pick up Impact but had no interest about it in the past only did so because of Hulk. You want articles which are impossible to produce because TNA is a private company and everybody will refuse to take Dixie or Eric at their word but if Hulk Hogan was so bad for TNA would they of kept him on pay roll for 3 and a half years? Do you really think a multi million dollar company would pay a man 2-3 million a year if he was doing absolutely nothing for them? It's such a naive way of thinking and quite honestly rather bias. SOR, In other words, the internet's opinion that sex and bikini contest are important but their disliking Hogan is just a few negative opinions? And even by polling the social media sites about what they want from the Knockout division, they still want it. The social media opinions on Hogan is that they want him off tv. Your argument is flawed because you contradict yourself in your own posts and sometimes in the same posts... Hulk has a proven track record as a money making draw for 3 decades the Knockouts or even womens wrestling in general has never proven to be a draw outside of "sex sells" type of matches. You guys can sit there and claim "KONG VS KIM MAIN EVENT OF IMPACT" but if it was such a draw why wasn't it done again? How come they didn't advertise them as the main event at House Shows? How come attendance didn't pick up for them? It's because they aren't draws. I'm not saying get rid of the Knockouts I'm saying have them do something different to what the men do. Someone brought up equality earlier in this thread and this is what it is. Compared to the men the Knockouts aren't great wrestlers so have them do something other then "Obligatory womens match number 512" The social media opinion of Hulk isn't that they want him off TV. Sure, maybe a few smarks who post on YouTube or Facebook want that but the general population want him there. Evidence? With actual numbers? Number of Hulk Hogan "Likes" on Facebook: 672,000 Number of TNA "Likes" on Facebook: 880,000 Hulk reaches almost as many people with a status update as the entire Impact Wrestling TV show does. But he's not a draw and people are sick of him, right?
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 19:46:15 GMT -5
Good matches with little in the way of story line. A wrestling company for people who just like matches really.
it's sad to see how far they've fallen. TMDK now hold gold there.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 17:21:26 GMT -5
One more match! One more match!
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 17:15:22 GMT -5
If the casual fans are turning on them and they stop buying the merchandise and going to the arena's and everybody discusses how much they hate Hogan on YouTube then sure, get rid of them. I get your point but it's not a fair comparison because the Knockouts in my opinion don't draw anyone to the building but Hogan does. When Hogan stops drawing for you, release him. How do we know he's actually drawing anything? Hogan has been a huge magnet for ridicule ever since 2005. As many people who are attracted to TNA because of Hogan, there's an equal number of people who write TNA off and don't even bother because of Hogan. Well lets look at it logically: Pre Hogan TV Taping attendeance: When on the road baout 1500- 2000 paid give or take Post Hogan TNA numbers for TV About 3500-4000. Pay Per Views draw more. Now apart from Hogan, Sting, Angle and Hardy who do you think a majority of the fans are coming out for? Why do Hogan and Sting get the biggest pops on the show by far? In terms of merchandising, licensing, getting into new area's with the TV Show, Being able to advertise in new area's Hulk is golden for them. Someone like AJ Styles (As talented as he is) cannot be an instant recognizable name on your local radio show and talk you into coming to the show. With Hulk Hogan, you have someone who can. You then throw in all the money he makes for TNA and you've definitely got a good investment. And nobody except internet fans are turned off by Hulk and TNA has them hooked already with Aries, Daniels, Joe, Styles etc. If the casual fans are turning on them and they stop buying the merchandise and going to the arena's and everybody discusses how much they hate Hogan on YouTube then sure, get rid of them. I get your point but it's not a fair comparison because the Knockouts in my opinion don't draw anyone to the building but Hogan does. When Hogan stops drawing for you, release him. So because your opinion says the Knockouts don't draw, they don't really matter and if they got cut out of TNA, no big deal right? How can you call my comparison unfair??? Personally I don't particularly care if all the Knockouts got fired no but I don't want TNA to cater to me. I say cater to the masses and give them what they want. Mickie James and Velvet Sky having a bikini contest on the next Impact would be a ratings puller in my opinion. Much more of a ratings puller then Mickie James and Velvet Sky having a straight wrestling match. As for why it's unfair. Hulk is a proven draw, he gets the biggest pop on TV, He's drawing people to the arena's because he's on every advertisement and promoting every show. He is a big part of why TNA draws big crowds for TV. Whilst Hogan is a main part of what makes Impact successful the Knockouts in reality are just icing on the cake. A few negative opinions about Hulk on the internet doesn't really matter if he's still drawing for you and still has the fans popping but since the Knockouts are nothing but filler and you can't really gauge what the audience think it's best to go with what your casual fans want. TNA can't really poll people on what they want from the Knockouts division so places like YouTube, Facebook etc are the second best way. If the people there want sex sells matches (And they do) then the majority rules and they should do that.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 16:56:49 GMT -5
That's awesome and a great piece that people would probably pay a lot of money for.
Funny thing is I imagine you only recognized a few names on the card but 20 years later most of them are legends.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 7:25:40 GMT -5
OP, great idea and it's also original (No sarcasm)
You could have him act like a beta male also and get used by the diva's whilst a popular baby face tries to teach him that if he keeps acting that way girls will always take advantage of him.
He eventually turns heel and starts acting like a dick in an attempt to get girls.
I smell money.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 7:22:50 GMT -5
Guys do it so girls are into them and think they have money or want to "belong" to something or be seen as something they're not (See all the wannabe MMA guys who wear Tapout shirts)
Girls do it because it's kind of expected of them from their peer groups.
Me personally? I'm in your group OP. I'm happy with paying 20 bucks for a T-Shirt and 25-30 for a pair of jeans.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 6:32:27 GMT -5
I dont care what people think.....I like Kristen Stewart. Not only cause I think she is pretty but also cause I think she can act I actually like her because I try and argue the point that acting ability doesn't really matter most of the time and that it's all look and she really helps that argument. I guess my unpopular opinion would be that you don't really need to be a great actor to make it. If you can be a passable actor and good looking you'll probably make it someday. Another one from the business side. People who hold auditions for unpaid acting work are the worst people on earth.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 5:53:30 GMT -5
I don't want to see Lingerie Matches and Bikini Matches but I'm a realist and I know that 70-80% of the folks who tune into Impact do. If it were up to me and TNA just wanted to cater to me and nobody else the Knockouts division would be gone and nobody from there would be seen ever again. But it isn't about what I want. Ok, so lets just say that you are correct and 70-80% of the people who watch TNA want to see the girls in bikinis instead of wrestling. 80% is a huge number when it comes to a fan base so naturally TNA will listen to the majority and cut out women's wrestling. Using our sample base of YouTube comments, what do you say when 80% of the fans want Hogan and Bischoff gone from TNA?? I mean, clearly YouTube people are sick of the Hogans and Bischoffs and whatever else, should we cut out their tv time too?? If the casual fans are turning on them and they stop buying the merchandise and going to the arena's and everybody discusses how much they hate Hogan on YouTube then sure, get rid of them. I get your point but it's not a fair comparison because the Knockouts in my opinion don't draw anyone to the building but Hogan does. When Hogan stops drawing for you, release him.
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 4:22:14 GMT -5
I've been watching some old ECW shows and they need a LOL page for some of their overbooked nonsense. Case in point: Raven retains the ECW World title in a combination Cage Match/Falls Count Anywhere 6 man tag match by being pinned by The Sandman. had Stevie Richards been pinned in the match, Raven would have lost the title. I think every company needs one. WWE has a bunch of good stuff. Katie Vick and Donald/Rosie anyone?
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Post by SOR on Aug 11, 2013 4:18:43 GMT -5
You disagree that YouTube is a good way to gauge what the casual fans want? TNA needs moar cat content. Ratings will explode! I never said try and cater to the YouTube masses I said that fans are more likely to use the YouTube page to post opinions etc when they don't have a message board or something to visit. Ditto for Facebook. Go look at any picture Impact Wrestling has up of a Knockout on Facebook. You'll get the same as those YouTube guys.
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Post by SOR on Aug 10, 2013 21:22:36 GMT -5
I remember reading how a lot of stuff that people really disliked on Impact was often booked by Dutch. Then again, who the hell really knows, anyway. That was Russo telling lies *Language* Russo's problem is he'll take credit but not blame. Like: Oh yeah that was me Hate: That was Dutch/Schiavone/Cornette Actually Russo seems to always want to defend his shittier ideas. He's always talking about how great the David Arquette title change was because it got WCW Mainstream press.
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